I know people have varying views on mr Branca but he argues that one of the five principles of lawful self defense is innocence. One of two ways to possibly regain innocence would be into effectively retreat from the conflict and the other party pursues and becomes the aggressor. The second would be if you used non deadly force and the other person responds with deadly forceOriginally Posted by JHC
Most states require some form of "withdraw and communicate" if you are the initial aggressor (some states use provocation instead of initial aggressor language), and seek to regain your right to self-defense.
IMO this is a pretty cool read so here it is. The author is of the Left. Two angles that make it so interesting. Maybe 3. One is he is really taking the Left to task for rationalizing/justifying riots. Very solid argument to that effect to the effect you justify riots you own the outcomes including collateral damage. Own it.
2nd is a reference doc for many many media articles etc that justified rioting for the riot (right?) cause. If nothing else I thought a fair number would like so many examples rolled up into one place.
3rd, he's pretty clever.
"Well, look: chaos is chaotic. Bad shit happens when people riot. When you create environments where anything can happen… anything can happen. Some people are going to take advantage of that opportunity to do things that you don’t like. You can’t endorse spasms of directionless violence and then complain when some of it plays out in a way that you hadn’t intended. This seems totally obvious to me, and yet so many out there want to both condone riots and condemn their chaotic outcomes. It’s like putting on music and getting mad when people dance."
"You can punch a Nazi, if you can actually find one in the wild, but you can’t punch white supremacy, the gender wage gap, or the police state. You can burn down a Starbucks but not the Pentagon. Nor is it remotely clear that the army of graduate students and Instagrammers who make up today's antifa are likely to win many fights."
"Well, yes - sites of lawlessness and violence are good places to break the law and commit acts of violence. Perhaps the thing for thinking people to do, then, is not to pretend that such scenes are good for getting justice or anything else. Perhaps we should not give violent right-wing actors the cover of lawlessness and the excuse of mass violence, which they will inevitably use for their own ends. And people who never experience more disorder than they find in line at Whole Foods should probably stop romanticizing that which is inflicted on the poor neighborhoods they ostensibly have such humanitarian concern for.
You endorsed chaotic violence. In that state, someone you don’t like engaged chaotically and violently. You said “riots are good.” But people get killed in riots! Now two people are dead, another is maimed, and the guy responsible may very well walk, as his actions took place against a backdrop of lawlessness and gunfire that gave him the legal arguments he needs to be acquitted. What else did you expect to happen, in that scenario? How did you think this would all go, this peacocking endorsement of violence for its own sake? Reap what you sow. Reap what you sow.
https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p...os-you-condone
“Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais
500 National Guard troops being deployed in Kenosha in anticipation of verdict.
"Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/interpolate
The first definition is interestingly what the defense is arguing.
Not beat flog the deceased equine, but... had these same troops been deployed in 2020, we would be more focused on the SA-35 and cheek welding shotguns around here instead of having this thread. That said, this trial has certainly been a case study (in the worst case scenario for a defensive shooting).
Good line...
Yup, then KR would not have deployed.
Wut a CF this whole deal is.
Do they have enough? I thought they were backfilling nurses and garbage men who didn't want to get vaccinated?
I am no lawyer and what I am about to say is subjective so will be difficult to objectively quantify as a possible "rule"
I stopped using the word "retarded" in my every day life due to the woke culture implications. But I find no better word to use here, so I will say that the prosecutor's arguments are retarded.
It's retarded to argue that "all the opposition had was a foot" as he was stomping on your head, and thus how could you possibly justify lethal force?
It's retarded to argue that "the opposition wasn't pointing his gun at you in a two handed stance from 20 feet away, so you weren't in jeopardy of being shot"
It's fucking retarded.
This prosecutor is a representative of the state. His salary is paid by tax dollars. He represents the people. And he's presenting retarded arguments that make no sense.
Although 2020 and 2021 has shown me that elected officials making retarded arguments is par for the course.
And reading the threads on reddit about how this heroic prosecutor is fighting a brave fight in spite of the pro-Trump judge because he had "god bless america" as a ring tone, and is also xenophobic anti-asian because he commented that he hoped the lunch wasn't asian food or it might be stuck in the port of long beach. Yes, there's thousands of retards on reddit who believe the judge is a pro-Trump asian hating racist.
So, I guess the prosecutor does represent the people and we deserve what we get.
To be fair, 3800 Wisconsin guardsmen were mobilized in 2020 just for civil unrest. That's in addition to the 1200 that were deployed overseas and those assisting with covid response....they were pretty well maxed out, and you can't place a finite resource everywhere; economy of force. Wisconsin's NG would have needed to be a full-time force in order to handle the events that year, but in reality they're a 7,000 member volunteer force and only a portion of NG units are trained and equipped for civil disorder. Similarly, Kenosha PD is less than 200 officers. 2020 is unique in that we had these hyper-focused civil disorder events that swelled with national attention and agitation....most police forces were really stretched thin to handle these events, and in many cases is why the police were not able to maintain law and order.
We also have to view these events in the current time and current constitutional limits on the police use of force. Not too long ago, even within the lifetimes of many people here on P-F.com, police routinely shot rioters for no other reason than failing to disperse once violence started breaking out; riot shotguns so named for that use because of the spread on 00 buck in such guns being particularly effective at discouraging mobs. Prior to lives of most P-F.com members, state police agencies usually maintained crew-served machine guns in their inventory to mow down crowds of rioters. Aerial bombardment has been used against rioters in US history. The whole "One riot, one ranger" mantra works a whole lot better when you can show up and start shooting people to get your point across.
Today? Completely different ballgame. Even in cities where the police were not only to authorized but encouraged to use reasonable force to disperse riots (many major cities in Texas being excellent examples in 2020), the manpower requirements are staggering. When we get into the territory of prolonged disorder, disorder across whole regions, disorder across the entire nation.....most PDs simply didn't stand a chance.
Even after the Rittenhouse shooting and intense focus of resources specifically on Kenosha, Wisconsin alone couldn't handle it and needed the assistance of several other states' National Guard forces....and that placed a strain on those states who already had their own problems, and were leaving "gaps" in their own force projection by deploying their troops at Wisconsin's request.
So, while there's certainly some pretty high profile failures by political leaders' decision making throughout the 2020 civil unrest incidents, the number of places that were simply "outgunned" beyond what they could handle is exponentially higher.
I do not believe Wisconsin is using their NG in this manner. They were used to help treat acute covid outbreaks, staffing testing centers and vaccination clinics when the virus was in full swing. I believe you're misattributing other states' use of their Guard to Wisconsin.
"Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer
