Alec Baldwin kills crew member on set with "prop gun"

[ccmdfd]

Obviously not a legal expert.

Is Mr Baldwin still not in the hot seat because he is also a producer of the show and because of their penny pinching they hired and incompetent armorer and then gave her extra duties to do on top of of that causing her not to spend as much time and energy doing her primary job?

I recently watched a video, I believe I posted about it in this thread in fact, where they did an interview of a Hollywood armorer. He was actually going to be the one for rust but was passed over because he was too expensive. He stated that there was a standard protocol of how Firearms were supposed to be handled on set. Something along the lines of they are brought in unloaded, the actor, the director, the armorer all verify that it's unloaded, then it is loaded by the armorer with the actor, etc, ETC watching directly.

Then eyewitness interviews of this particular shooting say that that type of activity did not happen on the set.

Thus, is he not liable since he did not follow standard operating protocol? He could have said "whoa, hold on! You need to show me that this gun is indeed cold! "

( not sure if they're truly is an intact protocol for all of Hollywood regarding this.)

[Joe in PNG]

Obviously not a legal expert.

Is Mr Baldwin still not in the hot seat because he is also a producer of the show and because of their penny pinching they hired and incompetent armorer and then gave her extra duties to do on top of of that causing her not to spend as much time and energy doing her primary job?

My understanding is that he is a producer, but not THE producer- aka, the guy who makes the crew hiring decision. It's more of a thing where Areck adds his name and clout to the production in order to get a bigger cut of the possible profits than just being one of the actors.

[ccmdfd]

My understanding is that he is a producer, but not THE producer- aka, the guy who makes the crew hiring decision. It's more of a thing where Areck adds his name and clout to the production in order to get a bigger cut of the possible profits than just being one of the actors.

Ah so!

[Rex G]

One thing about single-action revolvers, and the “Four Rules,” is that, really, with original-SAA-pattern single-action revolvers, the user really should substitute “hammer” for “trigger.” There are places where the trigger or hammer could wear or break, that could allow the hammer to fall, without input from the trigger. The trigger can be REMOVED, from the original-SAA-pattern single action revolver, and, well, yes, the weapon will fire, if the hammer is pulled to the rear, and then falls. (I have specified “original-SAA-pattern,” because other single-action revolver designs can differ. Some copies/replicas/“clones” are of original Colt SAA design, and some are not.) If the hammer is DOWN, the user can pull the trigger, or use the trigger as a day-long carry handle, and the original-SAA-pattern SA sixgun will not fire. It is the HAMMER that must be managed, with this type of weapon. The SAA-pattern trigger is “dead,” unless/until the hammer is cocked.

The above paragraph does not address whether the actor committed a crime.

Even if the actor did have the trigger pulled to the rearward position, before or after he cocked the hammer, my non-legal opinion is that the armorer bears the greatest responsibility, with those who hired the armorer bearing a share of the responsibility. “Hollywood” has not been following the same firearms safety rules as we* have, since, well, forever, and, each state’s criminal code has its own legal ideas about firearms safety.

I am not a lawyer. I have not read NM’s criminal or civil law books. Though not any kind of expert, I have fully disassembled and reassembled SAA-pattern revolving pistols, and operated such pistols, guided by decent books.

*”We,” the collective P-F-er community, plus, others who follow present-day best practices.

[corneileous]

Imagine if instead of a gun, the scene called for a lit stick of dynamite to be tossed at the camera- and let's suppose that they got an unintended kaboom with the same results.

Would anyone blame Areck Bardrin for not knowing that he was tossing a real explosive instead of a prop?

Havin’ a hard time figuring out how that would even be the same thing because if they got an explosives expert on the set that it be up to him to make sure the stick of dynamite brought on set would be “movie” dynamite and not the real thing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[WobblyPossum]

Havin’ a hard time figuring out how that would even be the same thing because if they got an explosives expert on the set that it be up to him to make sure the stick of dynamite brought on set would be “movie” dynamite and not the real thing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think that’s Joe’s point. It makes sense that the armorer, who is supposed to be the “expert,” is responsible for making sure everything related to the guns is safe. Actors aren’t expected to know anything about guns, dynamite, race cars, airplanes, etc. They memorize their lines and recite them while doing whatever actions the script and the director tell them to do.

[JSGlock34]

I believe I mentioned this earlier, but I highly recommend listening to this Podcast from Scott Ritz's 'With Deadly Force' Podcast if you're interested in the role of armorers and gun safety on movie sets.

With Deadly Force Episode 11: Guns in Movies

Episode 11 covers a timely subject matter following the tragic shooting that occurred recently during the filming of Alec Baldwin's movie 'Rust'. We have an in-depth conversation with two highly experienced Hollywood Prop Masters and Armorers about how guns are used in movies and TV shows.

Karl Weschta, VP of Independent Studio Services (ISS prop house) and Donnie Bruno, a highly experienced armorer who has worked on countless films including John Wick and Transformers, offer their industry knowledge about the vast, complex and challenging world of using guns in movies as well as their open and honest views about safety on Hollywood sets. Among the many topics discussed are industry firearms safety protocols in prop houses and on production sets, how prop guns, blanks and dummy rounds are designed, function and used in films, whats the difference between a prop master and armorer, what training/level of experience is required to become a prop master and armorer, what is currently known about the 'Rust" shooting, details about the 1993 Brandon Lee (Bruce Lee's Son) shooting that resulted in his death, as well as many more firearms-specific film industry insights.

This episode is an absolute must listen for anyone who wants to better understand how firearms are used in Hollywood.Enjoy the episode!

[ccmdfd]

I believe I mentioned this earlier, but I highly recommend listening to this Podcast from Scott Ritz's 'With Deadly Force' Podcast if you're interested in the role of armorers and gun safety on movie sets.

With Deadly Force Episode 11: Guns in Movies

Episode 11 covers a timely subject matter following the tragic shooting that occurred recently during the filming of Alec Baldwin's movie 'Rust'. We have an in-depth conversation with two highly experienced Hollywood Prop Masters and Armorers about how guns are used in movies and TV shows.

Karl Weschta, VP of Independent Studio Services (ISS prop house) and Donnie Bruno, a highly experienced armorer who has worked on countless films including John Wick and Transformers, offer their industry knowledge about the vast, complex and challenging world of using guns in movies as well as their open and honest views about safety on Hollywood sets. Among the many topics discussed are industry firearms safety protocols in prop houses and on production sets, how prop guns, blanks and dummy rounds are designed, function and used in films, whats the difference between a prop master and armorer, what training/level of experience is required to become a prop master and armorer, what is currently known about the 'Rust" shooting, details about the 1993 Brandon Lee (Bruce Lee's Son) shooting that resulted in his death, as well as many more firearms-specific film industry insights.

This episode is an absolute must listen for anyone who wants to better understand how firearms are used in Hollywood.Enjoy the episode!

Good stuff.

Thanks

[Joe in PNG]

I think that’s Joe’s point. It makes sense that the armorer, who is supposed to be the “expert,” is responsible for making sure everything related to the guns is safe. Actors aren’t expected to know anything about guns, dynamite, race cars, airplanes, etc. They memorize their lines and recite them while doing whatever actions the script and the director tell them to do.

This. Also, imagine that they didn't hire a properly certified explosives expert. Just some expert's kid who didn't follow proper safe procedures and practices.
If things go wrong, do you blame the actor who lit the fuse?

[camel]

This. Also, imagine that they didn't hire a properly certified explosives expert. Just some expert's kid who didn't follow proper safe procedures and practices.
If things go wrong, do you blame the actor who lit the fuse?

I’ll admit. Yes. I blame the actor who lit the fuse. Each and ever obligation to a firearm in your hands does not equate to third party participation. I see no reason for Hollywood or anybody to not be definable by their actions.