Cryptocurrency

[Borderland]

Cash isn't easy to trace. We have contractors here that only deal in cash. They don't even like to run checks through their bank. Some don't even use a bank. I recently paid a contractor in cash because he didn't have a bank account in order to cash a check. I don't have a problem with that because it isn't my job to keep track of his business transactions using my bank account. Cash, or Federal Reserve Notes is legal tender for all debts, public and private.

I think many people these days think a person is doing something illegal by using cash. I gave a Costco checker some cash the other day because my bank card didn't work. She gave me a dirty look.

Personally I still like the idea of cash and keep some in my safe. When the EMP bomb goes off I'll have a way to buy some food and fuel. OK boomer.

[MickAK]

I can transfer the US Dollar electronically very efficiently and have done so for years. Why it is better done with an instrument (crypto) that is not backed by a hard asset or the US government has yet to be proven especially in light of the latest hijinks with FTX.

Crypto is great if you're into extremely high risk vaporware that might give you something back if you're lucky enough to speculate correctly that day. Or not.

As I stated earlier I have zero dollars and zero cents in crypto. That isn't going to change for a long time.

Not understanding the underlying utility is going to be a weakness going forward. It's going to be a part of the world, just not something you can make money off of if you're not a pro, like Forex.

[Darth_Uno]

The flip side of being able to transfer without government supervision is exactly what happened when you trust a new company without government supervision!

Question for those with crypto holdings -- where do you keep these crypto holdings and what assurances do you have the crypto will be there when you want to access it?

I have Coinbase wallet. That is my crypto, in my wallet. No matter what happens, I HAVE POSSESSION OF THAT CRYPTO. Coinbase can’t say sorry, we don’t have it. Keeping in mind that ownership and possession are two different things. If I bought on regular Coinbase (not via the wallet), Coinbase basically says “We’ll hold onto this for you.” Much like a bank holding your cash.

I’ll just tell you guys, last year I put 10k into various cryptos and by the end of the year it was worth almost 40k. I sold everything except my initial 10k. Which is now worth about 3k, but so be it. No point selling now. Anyway, you can’t directly sell on the wallet - you can only exchange for other crypto. So you have to move your coins back into “regular” Coinbase (or any other exchange), sell it for cash, then withdraw your cash. It’s not as hard as it sounds. Other exchanges may do it differently.

[TheRoland]

The ability to move funds without government supervision appeals to me if for no other reason than "none of your business what i do with my money after my taxes are paid"... In the gig economy, I certainly understand why Governments want to monopolize digital currency, but for me, privacy is a factor. Although, I assume it's not impossible to trace crypto if the user isn't paying attention to their personal privacy.

I'm not disagreeing with what you said, but to clarify for anyone who knows less: Crypto is incredibly traceable. The entire things works by making the ledgers public. You can go to any number of sites to very quickly search every bitcoin/eth/whatever transaction ever made.

It only gets hard because:

1. not a lot of people understand what they're looking at yet. and
2. There's a lot of stuff to look through and
3. "Accounts" are sort-of anonymous until you do something with them that identifies who own them.

You're totally right that the supervisory aspects are not well developed and Point 3 can be really big. But literally everyone can see what you did with your money if they know who you are.

EDIT: deleted a reply portion that was a misunderstand on my part.

[RoyGBiv]

The flip side of being able to transfer without government supervision is exactly what happened when you trust a new company without government supervision!

Question for those with crypto holdings -- where do you keep these crypto holdings and what assurances do you have the crypto will be there when you want to access it?

I've used a company called Veem that uses the crypto markets to "wire" funds internationally and avoid the bank fees on both sides. Some of my suppliers liked to add $50 or so to my invoices to recover their inbound wire fee. I was able to force them to Veem or eliminate the invoice charges. 50 bucks is more of an annoyance really. I'm happy to pay my side bank and you pay yours. Want me to pay yours? Veem.com

I'm definitely not a crypto investor (I have a few dollars in a coinbase wallet). But, I do like some of the things being done with it.

[CleverNickname]

Question for those with crypto holdings -- where do you keep these crypto holdings and what assurances do you have the crypto will be there when you want to access it?

My coins are several addresses I generated. They're not even loaded into a wallet right now because when I got them I didn't have any plans to do anything with the coins other than hodling, and I still don't. I have the keys backed up separately in encrypted form in several places; when I do want to do something I can import the addresses into a wallet very easily.

[Borderland]

I have Coinbase wallet. That is my crypto, in my wallet. No matter what happens, I HAVE POSSESSION OF THAT CRYPTO. Coinbase can’t say sorry, we don’t have it. Keeping in mind that ownership and possession are two different things. If I bought on regular Coinbase (not via the wallet), Coinbase basically says “We’ll hold onto this for you.” Much like a bank holding your cash.

I’ll just tell you guys, last year I put 10k into various cryptos and by the end of the year it was worth almost 40k. I sold everything except my initial 10k. Which is now worth about 3k, but so be it. No point selling now. Anyway, you can’t directly sell on the wallet - you can only exchange for other crypto. So you have to move your coins back into “regular” Coinbase (or any other exchange), sell it for cash, then withdraw your cash. It’s not as hard as it sounds. Other exchanges may do it differently.

As you pointed out you will always have possession of it but if the value goes to zero, you basically have possession of nothing of value.

I'll admit I don't understand how crypto is exchanged, but doesn't it matter what the market says it's worth? Isn't it like the USD in that on any given day it's value is worth what you happen to be buying. If I want to buy something with Bitcoin doesn't the price of that item fluctuate day to day because of the market price of Bitcoin? Two weeks ago I could buy a gallon of gas for 4.50 USD. Yesterday I could buy it for 3.75 USD.

If I paid 1 USD for a Bitcoin and yesterday the exchange price was 0.47 USD, didn't I just screw myself by holding Bitcoin, using it as an exchange medium?

[RoyGBiv]

As you pointed out you will always have possession of it but if the value goes to zero, you basically have possession of nothing of value.

I'll admit I don't understand how crypto is exchanged, but doesn't it matter what the market says it's worth? Isn't it like the USD in that on any given day it's value is worth what you happen to be buying. If I want to buy something with Bitcoin doesn't the price of that item fluctuate day to day because of the market price of Bitcoin? Two weeks ago I could buy a gallon of gas for 4.50 USD. Yesterday I could buy it for 3.75 USD.

If I paid 1 USD for a Bitcoin and yesterday the exchange price was 0.47 USD didn't I just screw myself by holding Bitcoin, using it as an exchange medium?

Yes. Holding bitcoin is currency speculation.
Flip side is if you bought BTC at 10k and sold at 60k a few weeks ago, you were a genius.

[Darth_Uno]

As you pointed out you will always have possession of it but if the value goes to zero, you basically have possession of nothing of value.

If it goes to zero, it probably doesn't really matter who has possession at that point. If it is worth something, possession and access can matter a great deal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mt._Gox

[MickAK]

Yes. Holding bitcoin is currency speculation.
Flip side is if you bought BTC at 10k and sold at 60k a few weeks ago, you were a genius.

Until it goes to 120k and you're a dumbass again.