Is Springfield Armory bringing the Hi Power back?

[MattyD380]

I watched Garand Thumb's video and picked mine up on Sunday anyway. Went to the range with a stack of mags and a FN Browning. Some things worked well, some not so much. No complaints on the ergonomics and feel, but there were some functioning issues that I think will be fixable. All but one...maybe. Accuracy was acceptable, grouping a couple inches to the left at 15yards so some minor sight adjustment. It fed round nose ball and flat nose 147gr just fine.

1. Magazines. It comes with one Mecgar so of course my Mecgar branded mags were fine. None of my OEM Browning or FN mags fit. The magwell was too tight. That will get a call to SA tomorrow. I haven't heard that as a problem from any of the online reviews so either they took it on faith that Browning mags worked, never tried them, or in fact they did fit in their guns. I took off the grips and if you aren't familiar with the Hi Power, there is a flat spring at the back of the mag well that provides tension to the sear. I think that may be what is pressing against the magazine and preventing easy insertion and ejection of the magazine. I need to disassemble an OEM gun that handles both magazines and put it in the SA35. If that solves the problem, it is an easy and relatively inexpensive fix at about $16. The extractor is $26.

2. Thumb safety. The safety feels good, but I noticed a heavier trigger pull on the 2nd shot than the 1st. The safety position is not the same as a 1911 and for me at least, it doesn't work to rest my thumb on top of the safety, so it is under. With recoil, my thumb edges the the safety up just a scosh (close to, but more than a RCH). The gun runs, it fires, but it makes the trigger pull harder as the sear has to push the safety back down that little bit. I'll have to search for a solution. Either slight alteration of my grip or mechanical alteration and the latter gives me misgivings. If changing my grip a little solves the safety/hard trigger issue, I think I'm good.

3. Garand Thumb particularly noted the extractor as a problem and I experienced it several times in less than 100 rds. The extractor failed to extract and running the slide wouldn't cause it to snap over and extract. But the fired case would fall out of the chamber once the slide was open and the gun was tipped. The other people who complained about this replaced the extractor with a Browning/FN extractor and the problem was solved. So that is the easiest.

Am I disappointed? Yes. There is a lot of positive to this gun, so any failings are disappointing, but it is very likely this will be limited to the early production guns. Garand Thumb noted it on mid 500 serial numbered guns. Mine is mid 1700. I called SA this morning and got an RMA for them to fix it. We'll see.

Sorry. That sucks. Hope they get it sorted out for you.

[Tensaw]

Sigh... Just watched the entire last video from BH Springs. Very disappointing. Stephanie said it earlier about companies having customers beta-testing their products. True words. You would think that Springfield could spring for a case or two of ammo to see how their gun actually runs before releasing it. Or, hell, hire some folks like GT and BH Springs to kick the tires. Sheesh. This is almost like car manufacturers designing a car, cranking it in the garage and pronouncing it good to go having never road tested it.

ETA Spoiler alert: The second SA-35 tested by BH Springs was in the 15xx serial number range and started having failure to extract issues in the *first* magazine. The extraction/ejection cycle is pretty damn fundamental, not to mention crucial, to the proper functioning of a semi-auto pistol. And easily observable. You would think that this would be something that a bunch of engineers would have cracked the code on - especially on a design that’s been around for nearly a hunnert years. We can send a man to the moon, but we can’t get a pistol to run.

[Tensaw]

Just to point out how dumb it is that Springfield released these pistols with extraction issues... BH Springs found that the problems with extraction were caused by: the extractor channel cut into the slide was slightly undersized with “teeth” from the slide serrations impinging on the extractor; an extractor that was thinner than it could be which results in less metal hooking/interfacing with the cartridge rim; a slightly undersized hole within which the extractor coil spring sits which caused that spring to bind and fail to exert full pressure or tension on the extractor.

So essentially what Springfield needed to do to avoid the extraction problems was to machine the extractor channel just a hair wider and drill the spring hole a hair larger as well; and then use an extractor that was just slightly thicker. I suspect none of this would add any production cost to each unit - but instead, they are now going to through the nose for shipping labels and for techs to go back and correct these problems. Seems like a horrible business model.

Springfield would have done well to have read through the “Best Advice You’ve Ever Gotten” thread. Someone in there noted that doing things right the first time generally saves a lot of time and money. Maybe Springfield was banking on high ammo prices to keep these guns from actually being shot.

This also demonstrates why I have little to no use for reviewers who run a box (or less) of ammo through a gun a pronounce it good to go.

[Tokarev]

Just to point out how dumb it is that Springfield released these pistols with extraction issues... BH Springs found that the problems with extraction were caused by: the extractor channel cut into the slide was slightly undersized with “teeth” from the slide serrations impinging on the extractor; an extractor that was thinner than it could be which results in less metal hooking/interfacing with the cartridge rim; a slightly undersized hole within which the extractor coil spring sits which caused that spring to bind and fail to exert full pressure or tension on the extractor.

So essentially what Springfield needed to do to avoid the extraction problems was to machine the extractor channel just a hair wider and drill the spring hole a hair larger as well; and then use an extractor that was just slightly thicker. I suspect none of this would add any production cost to each unit - but instead, they are now going to through the nose for shipping labels and for techs to go back and correct these problems. Seems like a horrible business model.

Springfield would have done well to have read through the “Best Advice You’ve Ever Gotten” thread. Someone in there noted that doing things right the first time generally saves a lot of time and money. Maybe Springfield was banking on high ammo prices to keep these guns from actually being shot.

This also demonstrates why I have little to no use for reviewers who run a box (or less) of ammo through a gun a pronounce it good to go.

More stuff that makes me believe these start out in Turkey.

Note that C&S makes a specific extractor. Would this work in the SA-35? If so, it could be an easy fix for owners who are seeing extraction issues.

https://cylinder-slide.com/Category/BHPextr

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[jellydonut]

Springfield Armory still up to old Springfield Armory tricks. Disappointing, yet not surprising.

More stuff that makes me believe these start out in Turkey.

Note that C&S makes a specific extractor. Would this work in the SA-35? If so, it could be an easy fix for owners who are seeing extraction issues.

https://cylinder-slide.com/Category/BHPextr

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

What are the other indications that they start out in Turkey? Are they manufacturing in a jihadist hellstate and claiming the product to be American-made due to putting finishing touches in the US? Extremely depraved if so.

[Tokarev]

What are the other indications that they start out in Turkey? Are they manufacturing in a jihadist hellstate and claiming the product to be American-made due to putting finishing touches in the US? Extremely depraved if so.

Sight dovetail cuts.

I assume these are coming into the States in some sort of 80% format with final fit and finish done here.

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[WobblyPossum]

Sight dovetail cuts.

I assume these are coming into the States in some sort of 80% format with final fit and finish done here.

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If the slides are also coming in as 80% finished blocks of steel, it shouldn’t be hard for Springfield to cut a larger extractor channel.

[Evil_Ed]

Funny thing about BHPs and extractors...Browning springs work, but Wolff didn't. I'm sure other BHP people have run into this too; I had an old/surplus BHP that I did a spring refresh on, and used a Wolff extractor spring...constant fails to extract. Brownells had happened to get in a supply of factory Browning parts, so I ordered a handful of spare extractor springs...swapped out the spring (and that was the ONLY change) - back to %100 function.

I don't know what the deal is, but FN sprinkled some magic on it's extractor springs somehow. I don't know if the Wolff springs are bad, wrong spring rate, whatever...but in my (limited) experience they just didn't function as well as the factory FN/Browning springs.

If SA is going off print (as in, not using the print) for it's extractor...they may have gone off print for the spring, too...

[OlongJohnson]

So essentially what Springfield needed to do to avoid the extraction problems was to machine the extractor channel just a hair wider and drill the spring hole a hair larger as well; and then use an extractor that was just slightly thicker. I suspect none of this would add any production cost to each unit - but instead, they are now going to through the nose for shipping labels and for techs to go back and correct these problems. Seems like a horrible business model.

Springfield would have done well to have read through the “Best Advice You’ve Ever Gotten” thread. Someone in there noted that doing things right the first time generally saves a lot of time and money. Maybe Springfield was banking on high ammo prices to keep these guns from actually being shot.

Understanding the situation with production guns doesn't require me to believe that SA failed to put a reasonable number of rounds through pre-production guns. (Although that of course can't be ruled out.)

Things we don't know include where this machining is being done and who is doing it. And where the parts are coming from.

One thing you learn fairly quickly in manufacturing is that rate and batch size matter in process control. There's a reason that "pre-production" parts, before being approved to go to an assembly plant, must be run in production quantities, on production tooling and equipment, at production rates, with production staff doing the work. It's that weird stuff happens that you're not smart enough to imagine when you change how many and how fast you're building things. If you have a company that's done small batch runs of stuff and done them well enough for several years, then you add a zero or two to the batch size, all kinds of hell can break loose that you've never seen before, even though you thought you were doing exactly what you had always done, just more of it.

This applies to processes you do in-house, as well as to parts you purchase from suppliers (because they are subject to the exact same phenomena).

These lessons have been known in bigger business for many decades, won by hard experience. There are many manuals to help get new professionals and companies aspiring to serve bigger customers up to speed, and for established pros and companies to follow. But they are not intuitively obvious, and small business (which SA is) continues to learn (or often not learn) over and over through hard experience. It's not a matter of lack of good intent, it's a matter of simply not knowing what you don't know.

[reloader550]

It's unbelievable how people are all besides themselves over a rerelease of a gun that nobody really wanted. I don't even remember the last time I've seen a hipower in a gun shop new or used in the last 34 years I've been shooting and reloading.