Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 36

Thread: When to upgrade?

  1. #21
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Away, away, away, down.......
    I’m not going to go into details on how I did it, since some of it cost money and time I didn’t necessarily have at the time. But I’ll let you know my current personal rule:

    For serious use guns I’ll only change something out/upgrade it when I can identify a specific problem that can be addressed by a specific change of gear without affecting the reliability or safety of said firearm.

    I sucked at shooting today, at the match etc. isn’t a specific problem. That’s a general problem, and the first question I’ll ask myself is “have I been practicing enough to perform at the level I expected to perform at?” The answer is usually no, so I’m not allowed to change anything.

    Some examples of things I have changed and why.

    X front sight is wider than a B8 at 25 yards, and has no light bars on either side of the rear sight. I know through experience that a thinner front sight with some light on either side is more precise for me so I got some thinner sights with a wider read notch.

    This gen3 glock is all slippery and it negatively effects my ability to maintain a good grip during a string of fire. Ok, time to add some grip texture.

    Being able to try out something new on a friend’s gun or a friend’s different gun can sometimes be helpful, but can also yield a false positive because sometimes you’ll concentrate more or differently when trying something new.

    I’ll also third or fourth the message that dryfire with a red dot was an extremely useful tool in improving my glock shooting.

    In regards to @okie john’s post above, I once put in a much worse than my normal performance at a local class/skills day. I took the last box of ammo from that day to the range a week later and it wouldn’t hold a 10” group at 25 yards. A quick group with some +p gold dots had me feeling better about my previous and then current performance level.

    You’ve already gotten better advice than mine here, so good luck with your journey.
    im strong, i can run faster than train

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by mmc45414 View Post
    I suspect this may be because I have been diligently shooting every single weekend year round for the last several years.
    I wish that shooting was not a perishable skill. Then I'd be as good as I ever was.


    Okie John
    “The reliability of the 30-06 on most of the world’s non-dangerous game is so well established as to be beyond intelligent dispute.” Finn Aagaard
    "Don't fuck with it" seems to prevent the vast majority of reported issues." BehindBlueI's

  3. #23
    Hokey / Ancient JAD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Kansas City
    I have the luxury of not being good enough to outshoot a stock glock. There are platforms I can’t shoot — P30, G19, G43 — but with a platform that works for me like the G17, 1911, or P229 I kind of insist on running it stock. Cuts down the variables.
    Ignore Alien Orders

  4. #24
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    West Coast
    Awesome points everyone. Really appreciate it.

    In summary some general themes are emerging:

    Chasing performance through equipment will likely yield less benefit than focusing on the fundamentals.

    Maximize Dry fire.

    Practice on the timer.

    Consider training with a RDS even if carrying iron sights.

    I have to admit that with my new appreciation for training at 25 yards, the most tempting upgrade initially was with the Glock triggers - thankfully research into this led me to GJM's post on the subject. Insightful stuff.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Yute View Post
    Chasing performance through equipment will likely yield less benefit than focusing on the fundamentals.
    The thing is, it's not an either/or. One can "buy skill" and also focus at the fundamentals at the same time, since the former is largely simply an issue of financial cost, while the latter typically requires both time and money (ammo costs money after all, and not everything can be done only with dry fire, along with potentially paying for classes and/or coaching).

    On the flip side, if you do make upgrades, then you also take away any possible excuse you have, so that all you have left is to just get better. It also allows you to be lazier if you want and still have the same level of skill, though this also doesn't seem to be a real option if your concern is primarily with shooting a duty gun that you cannot modify anyway.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by mmc45414 View Post
    The person that is smoking fast and accurate with a $3,000 pistol probably got fast and accurate before they spent all that money.

    A few years ago we bicycled from Cincinnati to Cleveland (in five segments), my two brothers in law were the two strongest riders, and damn if they didn't also have the best equipment.

    I am competitive, though I try to compete against myself. A few years ago I was shooting well and also enjoying shooting a forty two ounce 1911 with a sweet trigger, when I started to wonder if I was shooting well because I was shooting an easy pistol. So I bought an M&P and didn't change anything but the sights, and continued to shoot pretty well. I suspect this may be because I have been diligently shooting every single weekend year round for the last several years.
    I can draw another parallel with cycling. A few years ago I upgraded a few things — got shoes that were comfortable, had a proper fit, etc. — and immediately started riding more and getting stronger. The gear changes didn’t make me faster. The work didn’t get any easier — hills were just as big, and I was just as heavy — but it was more comfortable to do the work.

    With shooting, doing some reshaping on the Glock grip(trigger guard undercut, etc.) didn’t magically improve my shooting, but it made practice a lot more pleasant. It eliminated a couple of distractions which helps me focus on the more important stuff.

    In short, my experience has been that you can’t buy progress, but you may be able to reduce some of the obstacles to progress. It’s the difference between “This will make me faster/more accurate” and “This will help me work on being faster/more accurate.”
    Last edited by peterb; 10-12-2021 at 07:21 AM.

  7. #27
    Site Supporter rob_s's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    SE FL
    My own experience changing “platforms” led me to the conclusion that the time and money would have been better spent Lear Kung to shoot the gun I had rather than buying a bunch of new guns (and holsters, and magazines, and accessories, and, and , and) only to later sell it all for a loss and wind up back where I started (Glock 19).

    Take that for what it’s worth. I’m not a GM, I rarely shoot pistols at all anymore, I’d guess I’m a Marksman/C-class shooter at this point, but when I *do* pick up a pistol again I find virtually zero degradation of skill from where I left off and I have every confidence that the skill level I have is sufficient for any sort of defensive need, since marksmanship at that point is only a piece of the puzzle (I’ve frankly come to the conclusion that the willingness to do someone else harm that is trying to do you harm is the true asset, and you either have it or you don’t). For me, at this point, the familiarity with my Glocks is the value add.

    Were I to regain and interest, and the time, to go shoot pistol matches frequently again AND I was doing so out of a competitive drive, I would go back to daily dryfire, monthly matches, and quarterly professional training with someone that specialized in my chosen discipline and had proven match results and an ability to teach (that last bit is the kicker, not everyone who can shoot can also teach, and some folks that CAN’T shoot actually CAN teach).

    Name:  F5F4708B-0AC4-45F9-82D1-06D7CDB5F672.jpg
Views: 187
Size:  29.4 KB
    Does the above offend? If you have paid to be here, you can click here to put it in context.

  8. #28
    @Yute

    Good takeaways from the entries here. I would also again strongly encourage you to get some instruction/coaching/training.
    Your location says “West Coast”. Plenty of resources, even in the somewhat negative political environment.
    Around LA: Firearms Training Associates and ITTS(Scotty Reitz). Up north, our own “Mr. White”-Gabe White-probably the hardest working instructor I’ve seen, and Firearms Academy of Seattle.
    One can pick up some things from the internet, but I believe an immersive experience, i.e., a class (maybe every year or two)will pay off.
    You got the bucks, Gunsite and Clint Smith of Thunder Ranch are in driving distance depending upon your preference.

    Edited to add: check out the “Pistol Classes” section right here on this forum!
    Last edited by 1Rangemaster; 10-12-2021 at 08:38 AM.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    I can draw another parallel with cycling. A few years ago I upgraded a few things — got shoes that were comfortable, had a proper fit, etc. — and immediately started riding more and getting stronger. The gear changes didn’t make me faster. The work didn’t get any easier — hills were just as big, and I was just as heavy — but it was more comfortable to do the work.
    I should admit, that after that ~350mi ride on a probably (at the time) twenty five year old bike (Raleigh Technium) with a 2x5 group when every gear change was a huge 20%+ loss of momentum (the picturesque Amish country in NE OH would be OK for a 25mi day, we did ~80mi that day...), I went out and got my ass a better bike (that I have hardly ridden since...). No reason to make things hard on yourself.

    But in another possible analogy, in my late thirties I dabbled in road racing a motorcycle. This was when I could afford to do it, rather than in my early twenties when I might have been in a better mode to hone the basic (testicular...) skills. In the class I was in there were several allowable equipment advantages I did not have, and one day, after getting lapped by a couple of the experts (meaning they were almost 2mi ahead of me in the span of less than 20mi...) I thought to myself "Those guys MUST have slicks, and total loss, and yada, and yada, and yada!", so I surreptitiously strolled over and inspected one of their bikes.
    Spoiler Alert: Same As Mine...

    I think most people would acknowledge an STI with an optic will make it easier to do some (many?) things, but I think the OP is on track to stick with what his job restricts him to, at least till he can hang with others shooting a similar setup. But maybe a fun gun with a few mods that make it a little easier to get better, like maybe a nice G-34 rather than a CZ or STI? Maybe an MOS so you could experiment with optics?

    Quote Originally Posted by okie john View Post
    I wish that shooting was not a perishable skill. Then I'd be as good as I ever was.
    Back to the racing analogy, there were popular T-shirts with the slogan:
    The Older I Get, The Faster I Was

    ETA:
    Quote Originally Posted by Caballoflaco View Post
    I once put in a much worse than my normal performance at a local class/skills day.
    This is how I first learned I needed cataract surgery!!!
    Last edited by mmc45414; 10-12-2021 at 08:01 AM.

  10. #30
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    out of here

    Additional point

    One comment I’d like to make about 25 yard B8.

    25 yard groups take accuracy and good fundamental skill.

    But it’s also very dependent on your zero.

    For most people, they’d be better off trying to stay within a 1” circle at 7 yards (approximately same scaled fundamentals).



    The thing I like about 7 yards is that you can get immediate visual feedback on each trigger press in a way that most of us can’t trying to spot little holes at 25 yards.

    Plus, I can make a whole row of 1-2” pasters and get clean feedback without a chewed up target or hole.

    Or I can increase the size a little and add some dynamic parts to training. (Video is with 40 SW for hole size reference)



    It doesn’t matter if you miss as long as you understand when and why you are missing. Then work on that in dry.

    @Yute

User Tag List

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •