ATF Raids Larry Vickers? Anyone know anything about this?

[rob_s]

Read the thread and the plea posted / linked in it - it's been "cliff notes'ed' in this thread .......more than once.

ok I guess I missed it or don't care enough either way.

[LittleLebowski]

I have little interest in the legal minutia involved here, but I do have some interest in the human element. I doubt if I'm the only person thinking "why the hell would he do this?" and I know some attribute it all to greed. Given the health issues and age of Mr. Vickers, I'm curious if those factors played a role in making choices that most of consider ill-advised (at best). Perhaps he had medical bills beyond his ability to pay (assuming he sought care outside of the VA system) and felt he had little to lose in an attempt to relieve any debt that might be a burden to any heirs. I'm not suggesting that such a scenario excuses the actions, but I'm just thinking of possibilities for the "why" that go beyond the sole intent of making profit. I suppose that exposes that while I appreciate making a profit, I find it difficult to understand and accept when someone goes to such lengths just for profit (I do not understand the criminal mind or intent).

I know Larry in real life, and I honestly think his gun-geekness and appreciation for nice things made him do this. I doubt he did this for money. Sad to watch this play out and it is worse because he did know better.

[LockedBreech]

Could, but not always. I don't have the same credentials as @vcd grips or @LockedBreech, but I get the impression that dropping charges to a lower felony level for the same crime is more of a state/local thing.

Since they've got him dead to rights, they may have offered to simply not charge additional statutes. In my small (very small) sphere of the federal system, this is what the AUSA's usually do on our cases. If he rejected the plea deal, they may have had additional stuff to charge him with. We wouldn't know, since we are going off charging docs/announcements for what is actually being charged. As an example, on our cases (again, a very small sphere of what gets prosecuted), the primary violation of a statute we're investigating will usually have 3-5 associated statutes violated which could be charged as well....so a typical plea is going to be admitting to some of them, but not all. If you go to trial, you get hit with all. That's the incentive.

While I am admitted to the federal bar, my federal practice experience is limited. However, I did attend a CLE with our local federal prosecutor about 2 weeks ago, and that seems spot on to me.

A big difference - maybe THE big difference - between State prosecution, my (former) expertise area, and Federal prosecution, is that when I prosecuted for the State, depending on which county I was with, my caseload ranged from 250 to 600, probably around 300-400 on average. The fed prosecutor I had the CLE with had 12 active cases. 12. Now, I live in a slow district so the contrast is usually not that dramatic, but the main point remains that fed case loads are much lighter, allowing for greater focus on the cases they do have. The feds have many more resources and many more places to refer stuff they don't want. That means the cases they take they have all the time in the world to come up with alternate charging schemes, prep for trial exhaustively, basically all the things prosecutors dream of being able to do but can't due to the nonstop triage of case volume.

[mmc45414]

I honestly think his gun-geekness and appreciation for nice things made him do this.

And I still wonder, and I could be FoS because of the timing, but if he knew/suspected he was sick it might be like going 2.7 seconds on a bull named fu manchu.

[LittleLebowski]

And I still wonder, and I could be FoS because of the timing, but if he knew/suspected he was sick it might be like going 2.7 seconds on a bull named fu manchu.

I think he got too proud/arrogant.

[rhino on INGO]

I know Larry in real life, and I honestly think his gun-geekness and appreciation for nice things made him do this. I doubt he did this for money. Sad to watch this play out and it is worse because he did know better.

I hope you're right. And I'll reiterate my agreement that it's sad and I really hope that he can emerge from this and still have some good years left.

It makes me wonder how many people are doing the same or similar things that will never get caught. People see that happening and choose to believe they won't get caught either . . . until they do.

[DamonL]

I know Larry in real life, and I honestly think his gun-geekness and appreciation for nice things made him do this. I doubt he did this for money. Sad to watch this play out and it is worse because he did know better.

I took classes from Larry and I also saw him at a gun show this past summer. I am really sad to see all this, too. Adding this edit. I did read the indictment information, that's what makes it sad to me.

[mmc45414]

They don't need to entertain the idea of going to trial, because there's so many federal crimes being presented to them by federal LE that they can basically just pick their cases off a tree.

And I have always tried to avoid messing with anything that might make me be low hanging fruit.

[billt460]

https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/...681237/?page=3

Thank You !

[jandbj]