Just like the last time OSD wrote about this, they continue to ignore the sanctions violations which are the “big” crime here with slam-dunk-open-and-shut-no-reasonable-doubt evidence.
Just like the last time OSD wrote about this, they continue to ignore the sanctions violations which are the “big” crime here with slam-dunk-open-and-shut-no-reasonable-doubt evidence.
My posts only represent my personal opinion and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or official policies of any employer, past or present. Obvious spelling errors are likely the result of an iPhone keyboard.
Originally Posted by Oldherkpilot
OSD is trying very hard to sell LAV's problem as everyone's problem, and if one were to read everything written in rebuttal here after each posting, I think you'd find that this isn't a problem for anyone not actively colluding with a foreign power as relates to sanctions.
I would opine that this is past ignorance and well into churlishness, if not explicitly willful dishonesty.
Jules
Runcible Works
Agreed.
The OSD articles portray this as an NFA case that resulted in the other charges as collateral spin offs of an NFA investigation.
In fact, OSD has it backwards.
This was a national security/ foreign collusion investigation which resulted in collateral/ spin off NFA charges.
This is blatantly obvious to anyone familiar with these type of investigations, so I agree Open Source Defense is being explicitly and willfully dishonest.
This is disappointing; OSD definitely has an agenda, and usually it's a good one, but in this case... no.
"The victor is not victorious if the vanquished does not consider himself so."
― Ennius
I would like to address this piece of the article, as I've seen this theme from others, and it's nonsense:
(sic)"Another fun fact: the letter gets submitted to the ATF along with your application to transfer the machine gun. So Vickers got his demo letters over the years, submitted them to the ATF, the ATF approved them . . . "
By emphasizing "ATF approved them," the writer is implying that ATF knew what was going on, and then changed their minds. This is a claim made by many people who defraud others, whether it's the government, businesses, or individuals. They say, "well they approved it, so it's legit. It's their fault, not mine."
News flash: the people who process the information provided to ATF, Department of Labor, the IRS, your State's DMV, the bank, etc, etc, aren't thoroughly investigating each one. They are simply checking to see if the information presented meets the basic requirements, that there isn't something obviously suspicious, and they move on. Later, if there is cause to investigate the original information more thoroughly, and it's determined the information was fraudulent, they aren't "changing their minds," they've merely discovered the fraud.
Whether it's a phony post-86 dealer sample machinegun application, a fake disability claim, a bogus tax return, a fictitious identity to obtain a driver's license, or a kited check at a bank, it's fraud. When it's discovered, the victim isn't changing their minds about what it considers legitimate, they are merely confronting the reality that some people will try to cheat the system, and it is often discovered late in the process.
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"Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" Then I said, "Here I am. Send me." - Isaiah 6:8
Sort of like the pistol brace thing?😉
You're comparing apples to oranges. I didn't claim agencies, business, or individuals, never change their position on issues, what I said was accepting an application, whether for a.post-86 dealer sample, or a home loan, only to discover later to discover the information provided on the application was fraudulent, and then seeking legal remedies for the fraud, isn't the agency, or the bank, changing their mind about what is legitimate.
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"Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" Then I said, "Here I am. Send me." - Isaiah 6:8
I am sure the worker bees that do this all day, every day, until they retire, are just doing it while hoping some document they laid eyes on for ninety seconds doesn't end up being shitshow like LAV.
Last edited by mmc45414; 01-26-2024 at 09:26 AM.
Great example! If someone going through the tax stamp process for the recent pistol-braces-into-SBRs period, and they did so from a fraudulent premise, let's say... using someone else's identifiers, or registering a slew of homemade guns that weren't made yet with the parts still in the mail system; but otherwise still followed the dictated process, is there a crime?
Jules
Runcible Works
Caveat emptor, I'm not ATF and do not have specific knowledge of their internal practices. However I do have lots of experience with other government regulatory functions which evaluate and adjudicate things.
There's usually protections built in for government servants doing their job. "Doing it right" is just as important as "getting it right". If the employee approved XYZ document for Joe, who later turned out to be Joe Shitbag, it won't come back on the employee as long as they followed their processes correctly. Sure, they'll be audited...that's routine, and they likely won't even know they're being audited unless it triggers an investigation.
However, as long as they did the job how they're supposed to, they will not be held responsible for the fact that someone else committed fraud. That's something that some people in this thread seem to have trouble understanding, as @runcible pointed out..
the person commiting fraud (or sanctions violations with an enemy of the state) is at fault.
"Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer
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