Consistent length to bullet ogive is one of the most important variables in precision loading. (Obviously, you need a good calipers and a caliber-specific comparator). Some people can achieve this on a progressive press, but I can't. I use a single-stage for all precision rifle loads.Originally Posted by Paul D
The annealer is a good idea if you will be loading your cases more than 3 times. It's not just about longevity of the brass. Consistent neck tension is important for consistency.
“There is no growth in the comfort zone.”--Jocko Willink
"You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
Good call. I think the biggest issue with loading accurate ammo on a progressive is getting consistent powder charges. TAC is really good for that, so you'll probably do pretty well.
My father shoots F Class and has set a couple of national Palma records, but he's on the fence about annealing. I'm pretty sure that if he thought it was effective, then he'd be up to his ears in it. But I also kinda want an automatic annealer. Gotta see how finances look at the end of the year.
Okie John
“The reliability of the 30-06 on most of the world’s non-dangerous game is so well established as to be beyond intelligent dispute.” Finn Aagaard
"Don't fuck with it" seems to prevent the vast majority of reported issues." BehindBlueI's
Shoot your rifle with Federal match ammo. Compare those groups with your reloads. I do understand your interest in reloading precision ammo but don't think you can learn the process using a Dillon. Instead I say study using a single stage press and transfer new skills to setting up the Dillon. Consistency is the key, but first a guy has to learn what the variables are and then figure out what to do and how to do it.
I have been shooting 175 grain Federal Gold Medal Match out of it so far. This current lot shoots an average of 2789 fps with a SD of 8.3. The ogive is 0.18" off the lands of my barrel. It's average group is 1.0" but it has never gotten <0.8" at 100 yds. Current cost for new GMM is about $1.70/rd.
I already have 500 new Lapua cases, Federal 210M primers, 12 lbs of Varget and Hornady 178 gr HPBT bullets that I bought way before the pandemic. So what I make will still cost a lot less than current prices for GMM. However, I am not sure if I can beat that SD. If I can get a SD of about 5-8 fps with a consistent grouping <0.75" @ 100 yds, then I will be happy. If the powder and primers dries up, I can always use GMM as a backup.
You know what you're doing. You have first class components and a superb rifle. Let me collect my thoughts so I can write concisely, and then I will send a pm with simple suggestions that might help. If they do, then you can post the information. Be aware that a champion level shooter might be able to shoot your rifle with your current ammo and produce the groups that you seek. I was never a champion level anything so I do not imply an unstated ability while I sit here pounding my keyboard and drooling my oatmeal.
Consistency in what you do = $0
The above is a combination of .308 and .300wm hits at a lased distance (IIRC) of 1160yds. Single stage press with basic Lee dies on the .308. The WM uses the same but a Forester neck die and seating die. I anneal my cases with a torch and a cordless drill. The caliper is from Menards. The .308 is an off the shelf Remington 700 5R with Vortex glass. My eyes suck and I drink too much coffee.
Don’t get sucked too far down the rabbit hole.
Last edited by entropy; 10-03-2021 at 09:08 AM.
Working diligently to enlarge my group size.
Whoa, that is some nice shooting! I going to take everyone's advice and not buy anything new. I did get a set of Redding Dies though. I am going to be meticulous with what I have and fashion the best load that I can, start practicing and keep notes (probably need a class) and then see where I'm at. End the end I can't substitute patience and practice with money and things.
Consistency in what you do = $0
The above is a combination of .308 and .300wm hits at a lased distance (IIRC) of 1160yds. Single stage press with basic Lee dies on the .308. The WM uses the same but a Forester neck die and seating die. I anneal my cases with a torch and a cordless drill. The caliper is from Menards. The .308 is an off the shelf Remington 700 5R with Vortex glass. My eyes suck and I drink too much coffee.
Don’t get sucked too far down the rabbit hole.
One time years ago I set out to find out what was reasonably possible to do with good handloading techniques.
I was shooting a heavy barrel Salvage .300 win mag and 185 grain Lapuas. The short version is that I hand weighed the charges, trued primer pockets, and did some other things. What made the single biggest difference by far was neck turning (versus non neck turned brass) for a more uniform release into the bore.
At 300 yards with neck turned brass I had an average across the board (versus one cherry picked group) of .96. I don't remember what the non neck turned brass results were but it was substantially larger.
Sadly my .96 group average would have been better but I shanked one group open ( I should have let the barrel cool, it was the last group) to a 1.5" and fubar'd my average ..
The flip side was that I found that neck turning was a bit on the tedious side and for the nature of what I was doing, I did not feel it was really worth the hassle most of the time.
I didn’t mean to come across as an ass. I’m sure I did however. Sorry.
If I had to pick the two things (besides the consistency in task) that “I believe” has made the biggest difference “for me”, it would be the following:
1. A digital pan scale (mine is a second hand MyWeigh) to measure charges down to the kernel. Literally.
2. A Sinclair inside neck mandrel die/uniformer that allows consistent neck tension.
Neither of these is very expensive. The bang-for-the-buck factor (IMHO) is huge. I saw dramatic results with both.
Lots of this is Zen though too. What works for one shooter sometimes has minimal effect for another. Doing the same thing every time with every load seems to be the key for myself though. “WHAT” I’m using to do this routine seems to have the least effect.
Be advised, I’m a hack.
Working diligently to enlarge my group size.
Not at all! You and everybody else reminded me that mastery of the fundamentals will give me what I want and not pouring money into it. Also this will force me to be fully intimate and knowledgeable with my rifle and my skills. Though I gotta admit that AMP annealer with the AMP Mate is HOT. Must resist. Don't need...now.
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