What are the most valuable tools for consistency/precison in handloads?

[Paul D]

I mainly reload for mass amounts of ammo (Dillon XL650) and occasionally for hunting (RBCS Rockchucker). I have a good understanding of for load development and doing precision measurements. What I am not sure about is what gives the best value to insure consistency and precision while handloading. Below are some items I am looking at but haven't gotten yet. I will give a fake dollar value based on their real cost and give you a budget of $26 (sorta like fantasy football but with reloading). I'm willing to pay more for automated/higher production options vs. lower cost/slower options. Unfortunately, I have more money than time.

Automated annealer (ie AMP annealer) $14
Single stage press (ie Co-AX) $5
Motorized Trimer (ie Giraud or like) $5
Match Die set (Redding etc) $2
Top quality powder measure/scale (ie RCBS Chargemaster Match) $9
Something else: $5

So what would be your lineup?

[Jager]

Precision rifle handloading is a rabbit hole. You can go down it as far as you want. And although some gear is obviously necessary, and good gear such as you described is very nice... making super precise rifle rounds mostly turns on what you do and how you do it, not what you do it with.

And unless your rifle/optic have sufficient inherent accuracy to reveal the goodness in those special rounds you just built, and unless the shooter has good enough field/bench skills to demonstrate it... it won't matter.

That all said, my only critique of your gear list is that I would not consider the RCBS Chargemaster lineup to be "top quality." It's quite good. But it doesn't hold a candle to something like an A&D FX-120i paired with an AutoTrickler.

And I don't see any measuring tools. You'll need a set of high quality calipers and a micrometer or two... and the knowledge of how to use them.

YMMV.

[Wise_A]

Interesting!

Match Die Set $2
Chargemaster $9 (I think that beyond that is nice, but diminishing returns applies)
Alpha/Lapua Brass, or Starline $5
Gauges for measuring base-to-ogive, base-to-shoulder, and Mitutoyo calipers $5

I would not upgrade from the Rockchucker given the budget. If I could buy on more thing, it would be a Wilson case trimmer with the appropriate chamfering cutter as well. Micrometer adjustment would be nice, but absolutely not necessary.

Other cartridge measuring tools are nice, but I view them as diagnostic tools. They're good for identifying what's wrong, but not very much good if you can't fix it.

[wrmettler]

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=rcbs+prec..._ts-doa-p_1_14Maybe a RCBS Precision Mic to measure the set-back of the brass when resizing. It takes the guess out of setting up the resizing die and allows for very small setbacks.

You already probably have one but a good Chronograph. Afterall, you can have most consistent reloads, but unless you know the velocity, ES, and SD, it is hard to know the results of your reloading efforts and plot the drops. I use a Magnetospeed V3, and if I wasn’t so old and cheap, I’d buy a Labradar.

The Foster Co-AX press is just a great single stage press. But, if time is important, your Dillon 650 can produce very consistent reloads if you use the right powder. That option may be worth the effort to experiment with different powders.

[okie john]

I recently went though a workup to get ready for a bear hunt. For 20 of the last 30 years my average shot on game has been about 35 yards, but the guide I hunted with told me to expect shots to 400 or more. I was in zero-to-60 mode for about six months: I had to upgrade a rifle, revamp my loading practices and equipment, start buying better components, and learn to shoot at long range again.

With that in mind, I think it’s hard to answer your questions without knowing how precise your current reloading practices are, what rifles and optics you’re using, how well they’re set up, and your skill as a marksman. If any of those are lacking, then better loading gear won’t help.

For instance, if you’re not prepping brass by deburring primer pockets and sorting it by weight, then you should probably either start or keep using your existing tools. That’s a baseline thing that has been shown to pay off, and you can do it with a cheap scale and a few hand tools. Once you’re willing to make that investment in time and components, then the other stuff on your list starts to make some sense.

I’d also start looking for articles by German Salazar. He knows what does and doesn’t work in long-range shooting. He’s good at explaining how the rifle, shooter, and ammunition should interact, and how to diagnose and fix the issues you’ll encounter.

FWIW, when Ross Seyfried went out in search of a revolver that could hold 1 MOA at 100 yards, he loaded his ammo on a Dillon RL650.


Okie John

[Clusterfrack]

For me, the most important thing was developing an Optimal Charge Weight (OCW) load for each of my rifles. OCW loads can tolerate minor variations in powder charge, differences among lots, etc. I have no patience for fiddling with neck turning, and the like --the sort of stuff F-Class shooters do.

[Paul D]

Thanks everybody for your input! My rifle is a Remington 700 308 that was worked on by TS Customs Precision Rifle with a Gen II Viper PST 5-25x50 scope. I have had this gun for a while but never got around to shoot it. Right now, my skill is not better than its inherent accuracy/precision. I want to work on it so one day I will be. For that to happen I will need a lot of great (not match winning) ammo. I am not going to be turning the necks or weighing the brass or any of those more fastidious techniques (I ain't good enough for it to show yet).

Right now on my XL650, I have two heads for 308. On head has a decapper, full length sizer and a Dillon RT1500 electric trimmer. I run whatever brass through the hopper dirty but lubed up. I run it through the wet tumbler to clean and change out the head. The second head has the Dillon powder drop (I use Ramshot TAC for this load), a seater and a gentle crimper. Boom, I'm done and now I have ammo for my autos (FAL, G3, AR10 guns).

If I of course use the right brass, carefully set the RT1500, and drop the powder load manually, do you guys think I can achieve that "way better than factory match consistency and quality"?.

[Wise_A]

Yeah. Absolutely. I know a number of high-profile LR shooters reload on either a Dllon 550 or 650/750. The most important thing is to measure the charges by weight instead of using the dropper. I believe one of the 6.5Guys reloads on a 550. Erik Cortina might have a video as well. Search YT for both. I believe both use a two-pass similar to what you're contemplating.

First Pass--
Deprime
Resize

Off-Press--
De-Lube
Trim
Prime

Second Pass--
Charge
Seat

Drop the crimp for bolt guns.

[okie john]

If I of course use the right brass, carefully set the RT1500, and drop the powder load manually, do you guys think I can achieve that "way better than factory match consistency and quality"?

308 factory match ammo is pretty darned good. You may not be able to beat it by much, but you’ll definitely be able to match the quality for less money, plus you’ll learn a lot about your rifle.

Optimum charge weight, the Satterlee method, and ladder tests get you to the same result without wasting a ton of components. I use the Satterlee method (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACyfeeBHVOA) then work with overall length with a micrometer seating die.

For that, I seat 20-30 rounds with the bullet just barely hanging in the case but just short enough to fit into the magazine and cycle. Then seat deeper in increments of 0.003-4” and watch what happens. If groups consistently have two shots touching and one away, then seat deeper. If groups are an even triangle but too big, then seat shallower. As with charge, you may find more than one node for length. I’ll typically take a single-stage press with a micrometer die and a set of calipers to the range, then work with length from there. I get some strange looks but I’m used to that.

I’ve been using TAC for about a year. 44.5-45 grains with a Hornady 168-grain match boat tail in Lapua brass with Winchester magnum primers should get you full velocity and great accuracy without having to weigh charges. My rifle is a Remington 700 with a factory barrel and the long throat that’s typical for them. If your rifle has a custom barrel, then it should have more conventional throat geometry. You'll want to determine where the lands are so you don’t jump pressures too high right out of the gate.

45.8 grains of Varget with a 165-grain Partition in Winchester brass with CCI 200 primers is also accurate in my rifle but it’s pretty close to max. Both of these loads are right around 2,700 fps.

The best method of all would be to ask the guys who built your rifle to recommend a load. Every builder that I’ve ever worked with has a couple of favorites.

Also agree on not crimping for bolt guns.


Okie John

[Paul D]

Thanks again! I think I know how I'm going to do this.

I'm going to single stage my loads until I find the perfect load, then I'll see if I can upscale production on the 650 consistently.

What about annealing? Is that a frivolous luxury or does it really improves brass consistency and life? I saw the AMP annealer. It is pricey but man that is cool how it anneals the brass without an open flame (would make me feel safer). Not sure if I need it, but I kinda want it.