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Thread: GP100 In Local IDPA Match

  1. #61
    Member JonInWA's Avatar
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    Grip Update: With Hogue Tamer Rubber Grips

    As as follow-on to my ongoing "GP100 In Local IDPA Match" thread https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....cal-IDPA-Match, I decided to post this grip discussion as a stand-alone thread, but I'll probably also attach it to the original thread for those who want the continuity in one thread.

    Recap: Starting with the Ruger/Altamont Compact rubber grip with laminate inlays, moving to the Ruger full-size rubber grip with laminate inlays, then to VZ Twister and 320 G10 grips, and now....to Hogue's rubber Tamer grip, with a sorbethane cell foam/gel insert in the backstrap area.

    The reason for the grip quest was simple: Seeking to find an effective, ergonomic, and non-painful grip when shooting the GP100 with full-house, 158 gr 1250 fps .357 magnum cartridges. My use and evaluations concentrated around IDPA matches, where ther would be concentrated 100 round-per-match use, which would serve as a good evaluative venue.

    What I found encompassed several areas of my shooting-there was a good learning curve for me. First of all, if I fired more than 50 rounds using my autopistol thumbs forward and thumbs adjacent grip, a painful blood blister would develop on the inner surface of my strong-hand thumb; essentially, the support hand kept it in forcible contact with the left side of the revolver grip, where torquing forces abraded the area. Switching to a lowered strong hand thumb with support hand thumb over strong hand thumbnail provided an effective, non abraiding grip on the revolver.

    Second, while the ergonomics of the Ruger Compact and VZ G10 grips were excellent, even with the revised grip shooting full-house .357 was still painful, with recoil forces directed into the web of my strong hand, and painfully so. While I was never unable to shoot effectively, and never had to leave a match, shooting the GP100 simply wasn't a lot of fun.

    I experimented with moleskin bandages applied to my string hand inner thumb area and shooting gloves. Both mitigated against the pain somewhat, but since my primary purpose for competition shooting is to help and reeinforce my EDC and duty use, I saw a limited viability to the bandage/glove approach.

    I'd briefly had theearlier Hogue rubber GP100 grip. I didn't much like it, especially compared to the Ruger Compact grip. The Hogue was angular, bulky and aesthetically ugly. It was much harder to carry conceiled, so after a brief trial period, I gifted it to a friend for use in his sister's GP100-by all reports she is satisfied with it.

    I really appreciated the two VZ G10 grips. Their ergonomics are exceptional, and the raised surface ridges and grip incised cuts on the Twister I found to be exceptional. The problem? They are painful after a relatively short amount of time/rounds to shoot full-house 158 gr .357 magnum cartridges through...there is little to no recoil absorbtion provided by the hard, dense G10 material.

    Now the reality is that I could be comfortable using either the Ruger Compact or VZ G10 grips defensively, as the reality is that most armed encounters are resolved with less than a cylinderful of cartridges, by FBI tracking results. Additionally, the discomfort is with .357 cartridges-I can fire .38 Special +P cartridges with no discomfort whatsoever.

    But, I have dedicated my GP100 to .357 use, and my Security Six to .38 Special +P, so I felt I should orient the GP100 package so that I'd achioeve competance in all of my venues-which meant that much as I liked (and still like and appreciate) the previous grips, my quest would continue.

    Enter the Hogue Tamer. This is a grip that Hogue has specifically aimed for larger Ruger double-action Super Redhawk revolvers, and some tactical shotguns and some Smith & Wesson revolvers. The Tamer has a revised and slightly more compact profile than the original Hogue rubber grips for the GP100. After Letts Grips disappeared from the scene, Ruger began instuting the Hogue grips and the OEM Ruger grips for may of their revolvers, especially the GP100. While Ruger purists raised their noses at the bulkier, less concealible, less aesthetically appealing, they persisted for years as the OEM grip, until in the past year Ruger has begun to increasingly offer other grips as their OEM grips for revolvers.

    The Tamer was probably introduced as a recoil-reducing grip for the larger-calibered Super Redhawks, what with their heavy and jarring recoil forces, but a happy coincidence is that the Super Redhawk and GP100 share the same essential frame contours. The Tamer provides a recoil absorbing Sorbethane foam/gel cell incorporated into the grip's internal backstrap area. Additionally, I much prefer the Tamer exterior profile to that of the original Hogue rubber GP100 grip; the backstrap angle is better, and there's less flaring and protrusion at the heel and butt of the grip, rendering it more concealable.

    And-Here's the key thing-It flat-out works. I was able to fire an IDPA match with 1250 and 1000 fps .158 gr .357 cartridges in a 7 stage match with absolutely no discomfort whatsoever, both during and after the match. I'm going to continue to run the GP100 with these grips; mmuch as I really like the alternatives, particularly for their aesthetics and easier concealibility, the Hogue Tamers are operationally more comfortable and desirable. I prefer to have the same set-ups on my EDC/duty guns as IDPA-so while I could EDC/duty carry the Ruger Compact or VZ grips (particularly the VZ Twisters) the Hogue Tamers are simply a better all-around selection for me.

    Some comparative images:

    The GP100 with Ruger/Altamont Compact grips:


    The GP100 with VZ Twister grips:


    The GP100 with VZ 320 G10 grips:


    The Ruger and VZ grips compared: From left to right, Ruger Fulls size, VZ Twister, Ruger Compact


    The GP100 with Hogue Tamer grips:



    And yeah, the purposful, business-like aesthetics of the Hogue Tamers are growing on me...

    Best, Jon
    Last edited by JonInWA; 02-28-2022 at 01:17 PM.

  2. #62
    Member JonInWA's Avatar
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    I shot my second IDPA match with the Hogue Tamers on the GP100. 100 rounds of full-house Federal JSP at 1240 fps, and about 35 rounds of slightly lighter 158 gr Magtech Cowboy LFN at 1080 fps. I had the same results as previously with the Hogue Tamers-exceptional cushioning and recoil absorbtion, with absolutely no pain or discomfort to any portion of my hands. While I shot mostly two-handed freestyle, there was also some stages requiring strong-hand only and support-hand only shooting; there were no issues with the Tamers regardless of the type of hold.

    Zero problems in acquiring or indexing on draw; the finger grooves and rubber composition work fine with me, and I've noticed no "grabbing" on my concealment garments by the rubber. I'm sold on these. While they're not the most aesthetically attractive, they flat-out work and aren't difficult at all to carry or reasonably conceal.

    While the VZ G10s are slightly better in my opinion due to their slightly more compact size (and great aesthetics), and my second choice would be with the Ruger/Altamont Compact grips for .38 Special, .38 Special +P, and limited continued use of .357 magnum (and empirically "less," at least for me is lower than 50 rounds)-but those 50 are still gonna be a tad bit uncomfortable..., in my opinion the Hogue Tamers are the best overall choice for .357 and mixed .357/.38 Special/.38 Special +P use on a .357 magnum revolver. And they're exceptionally cost-effective.

    If you're going to be shooting .357 magnum cartridges in any quantity, in my opionion these are a "must buy." I also consider their shape and dimensions to be superior to the Hogue regular rubber grips for the GP100, so they'd be a worthwhile consideration even if you only plan on shooting .38 Special cartridges.

    Best, Jon

  3. #63
    Member JonInWA's Avatar
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    August 2022 Update

    In conjunction with another ongoing collaborative project with the owner and senior gunsmith at C.a.R. Firearms Chris, and his associate gunsmith Nick, I discussed the ongoing light strike issues I'd encountered as discussed earlier in the thread. As both are well experience with both Rugers in general and Ruger GP100s specifically, they were intrigues, and offered to take a hard look at the gun. Our collective initial thoughts were that the primary causal factor was either poor primers of an issue with the firing pin (i.e., insufficient protrusion/length).

    Accordingly, I let them loose on the GP, as well as providing them with a print copy of this thread.

    Chris has seen a recent spate of primer issues since the current ammunition shortage situation in conjunction with COVID-19 and other civil disturbance issues arose; it's my understanding that there are only four manufacturing facilities in the U.S. manufacturing primers (apparently China as a source has been cut off). My thoughts are that production is probably primarily oriented to providing primers to the major munitions manufacturers, with the secondary market taking a back seat-and I suspect regardless, that quality control has significantly been allowed to lapse.

    The one hollowpoint cartridge that I've experienced a relative-free experience is with Federal's current 158 gr HydraShok JHP; looking back at my notes and other reviews, this seems to be a credible defensive cartridge-and one that I can trust, so I'm making them my choice for defensive carry.

    When Chris at C.a.R. went through the GP, he was extremely impressed with Chris Peters' gunsmithing and attention to detail, point out things that Chris had done that I hadn't noticed, such as the slight beveling he applied to the forward edges of the hammer. The trigger group was in superb shape, and they recommended that I continue to use the current spring configuration-the OEM Ruger #14 mainspring, and the ISMI #12 trigger return spring, as they work well in conjunction with each other, with a very smooth triggerpull and positive reset.

    During a Friday practice session, I tested the Federal 158 gr JHP HydraShoks, 158 gr Remington HRP SJHP, 148 gr Fiocchi SJHP, and most extensively some 158 gr handloads at 1100 fps-unfortunately I'd had repeated issues (light strikes) these cartridges with CCI 550 primers. There were no issues whatsoever with any of the factory loads, but I continuously experienced some 6-7 light strikes in 94 rounds fired with it, so I'm pretty done with CCI 550 primered cartridges.

    Other things noteworthy: Springs/triggerpull worked well, a bit heavy (but not onerously so) with the OEM Ruger mainspring and ISMI trigger return spring, and the Hogue Tamer grips continue to make shooting full-house .357 magnum a pleasant and drama-free event. Additionally, every 3-6 cylinders I brushed out the chambers and brushed out the back and inner ejector star areas, and the inside of the cylinder where the ejector star sits with nylon bristled brushes.

    Best, Jon

  4. #64

    Thanks

    Thanks for the update, Jon. I appreciate you detailing your grip evolution process and the primer issues. Seems like is may be manufacturing issues as you have stated.
    Please keep updating as you continue!
    Tar

  5. #65
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    Very interesting topic and a great read. I'd be interested in knowing what your trigger pull is and if you've ever used a trigger pull scale. Have you ever tested the amount of hammer fall you have? A good fishing scale will tell you how many ounces you've got.

    I've used Hogue grips for 40 years and always have been happy with them. I'm sure you will find them to eliminate your blistering problem.

    Pick one brand of ammo and stick with it throughout your entire match. Changing brands only exasperates the problem.

  6. #66
    Member JonInWA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzShooter View Post
    Very interesting topic and a great read. I'd be interested in knowing what your trigger pull is and if you've ever used a trigger pull scale. Have you ever tested the amount of hammer fall you have? A good fishing scale will tell you how many ounces you've got.

    I've used Hogue grips for 40 years and always have been happy with them. I'm sure you will find them to eliminate your blistering problem.

    Pick one brand of ammo and stick with it throughout your entire match. Changing brands only exasperates the problem.
    Thanks, AZ. Totally agree with standardized cartridges normally, but the last practice session was one to test (the gun) and validate (or not) a variety of cartridges, including my carry (Federal 158 gr HydraShok) and a batch of quality reloads that a friend of mine had ginned up specifically for me (unfortunately those were the ones with the problematic primers...)

    Best, Jon

  7. #67
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    Thanks Jon.

    Good luck with your shooting. I'd still like to know some of the numbers on your trigger pull and hammer fall if you can provide them. I've always been interested in such details.

  8. #68
    Member JonInWA's Avatar
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    Will do, if I can commandeer a trigger pull weight scale from a buddy.

    While I probably could reduce the mainspring weight to #12, since its smooth at #14 with the Ruger spring, at the advice of my gunsmith I plan on keeping it there (along with the slight stronger than OEM ISMI trigger return spring) for a positive reset-the spring combination seems to work well.

    Best, Jon

  9. #69
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    Smooth is better than light any day. I make mine heavy enough to set off all the primers I need. I my lightest DA pull has been 4.5 pounds. With my 617 revolver it has to be 8 pounds to light off CCI Mini Mags.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonInWA View Post
    During a Friday practice session, I tested the Federal 158 gr JHP HydraShoks, 158 gr Remington HRP SJHP, 148 gr Fiocchi SJHP, and most extensively some 158 gr handloads at 1100 fps-unfortunately I'd had repeated issues (light strikes) these cartridges with CCI 550 primers. There were no issues whatsoever with any of the factory loads, but I continuously experienced some 6-7 light strikes in 94 rounds fired with it, so I'm pretty done with CCI 550 primered cartridges..

    Best, Jon
    Jon,

    FWIW, I used to reload .38 Special and .357 Magnum ammunition, and discovered hardness differences between the 3 primers I used. I used Federal (softest), Remington (medium) and CCI (hardest). I preferred Federal because they seemed more reliable due to being softer. I avoided CCI as the hardness of them seemed to correlate with lower reliability when all other components were the same.

    I am glad you posted this a while ago and gave a link to it. I hope my comment here is helpful.

    Ron

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