Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 3456 LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 51

Thread: .22 LR rundown

  1. #41
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    St Louis

    Ruger Mark IV manual

    https://ruger-docs.s3.amazonaws.com/...V-Pc4tS28s.pdf

    I can't remember off hand; but mine came with the cable-padlock.

  2. #42
    Abducted by Aliens Borderland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Camano Island WA.
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    You're going to burn a lot of ammo with that baby. Just a heads up.
    In the P-F basket of deplorables.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by momano View Post
    https://ruger-docs.s3.amazonaws.com/...V-Pc4tS28s.pdf

    I can't remember off hand; but mine came with the cable-padlock.

    I’m referring to an integral lock on the pistol, itself.

  4. #44
    I can't believe no one has mentioned the CP33 yet. Probably not the greatest for practicing manipulations and all that, given it's different manual of arms, but it is suppressor ready, extremely easy to add optics, and has 50 round mags (though annoyingly, you have to build them by buying the 33 rounders first, then getting the basepad; they do make the heel magazine release way more intuitive to hit, too). Most folks find mine with an ACRO, X400UH, and Rugged Oculus to be a real hoot. Super fun, and still good for practicing transitions.

  5. #45
    Site Supporter MichaelD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    South Jordan, Utah
    Quote Originally Posted by Rack View Post
    Does Ruger still put a key-lock device on their .22 pistols? Specifically the MKIV?

    Thanks.
    My MKIII didn't have one, and as far as I know the MKIV doesn't have one either.

  6. #46
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2021
    Location
    Outside the Moderate Damage Radius
    This is an older article which talks about older .22 pistols, but is a good read and food for thought:

    A .22 Pistol for the Evader or Survivor - The Fundamental Truths:

    A .22 auto pistol isn't your first choice when expecting combat.

    If combat isn't your job, but you find yourself alone in a hostile environment, your job is to get back to “the world.”

    The purpose of a survival handgun gun carried by downed aircrew or clandestine operators is to neutralize immediate threats from contact range to 30 feet, to facilitate escape. That is all.

    In the words of the late Harry J. Archer, "If you stand and fight you'll never live to shoot them all." The rapidity with which a the .22 enables accurate, multiple hits, combined with low noise,muzzle flash and recoil, discreet profile and minimum weight and cube of "the package" mostly compensate for lower kinetic energy.

    During WWII through the Cold War era Colt Woodsmans, and WWII-era High Standards were of any barrel length were greatly prized, being deemed the greatest natural pointers in the “Applegate method.”

    The user's attention is "target focused," upon the threat, watching the bad guy's hands, evaluating whether he is friend or foe, being ready to either instantly disappear without notice, or to “shoot and scoot,” always with emphasis on speed. We aren't talking "one-shot-stops" here, but precise double or triple tap head shots in two seconds or less. The gun is gripped convulsively and pointed "as naturally as if it was an extension of your finger."

    Israel's Mossad is popularly credited with originating the concept of using a silenced .22, but they simply learned it from the British and improved the hardware. During WWII Britain's SIS and SOE, were thoroughly trained in Fairbairn and Sykes (Shanghai Police) shooting methods. When the US entered WWII Rex Applegate became a student of Fairbairn and Sykes. He brought their techniques to Camp Richie, Maryland where they were adopted by the OSS. Applegate’s influence remained strong in the black ops community throughout the Cold War. The boys down at "the farm" never fully accepted Cooper's so-called "modern" technique of the pistol other than as "good disinformation to have out there,” serving as a distraction from old school trade craft which they knew worked. Having popular magazines reinforce the virtues of Cooper's techniques was encouraged to reinforce the illusion in exactly the same way today that the canted “gangsta” grip is presented in TV and movies today.

    Always remember that the cover story is published and that the truth is “protected by a bodyguard of lies.”


    High Standards of the WWII era shared the same favorable grip angle, and could use Colt magazines which were more reliable and readily available. Six inch and longer barrels provide longer sight radius which aids accurate shooting when the target is camp meat for the pot. An expert pistol shot can bring small game to bag at 25 to 40 yards with ease. A longer barrel increases velocity by 80-100 f.p.s., which improves hollow-point bullet performance noticeably.

    Shorter 4-1/2” barrels were favored for missions where concealed carry was important. A common carry method was muzzle-up, butt forward, with the hammer cocked and slide closed on an empty chamber. The guns is retrieved quickly from the pocket as easily as your wallet, grasping the barrel behind the muzzle with thumb and forefinger of the left hand, grasping the butt as the gun clears the coat, trigger finger extended, pointing, as the left hand sweeps the slide back against minimal resistance, against the cocked hammer ( these days called “Mossad style” ) deftly releasing the slide and chambering a round as the left arm assumes the protective folded position across the chest, freeing the gun hand to rapidly trigger a protective "burst on target."

    An alternate carry method was the ancestor of today’s popular Desantis and Allesi pocket holsters. Parachute riggers would sew a simple pancake design using a salvaged top cut off an old pair of jump boots, lining with fabric from an OG107 wool shirt or nylon parachute pack fabric, with two button tabs, which were commonly attached inside the flight suit or coat pocket using paracord loops sewn into the pocket. When in Europe in 2011 I was shown a holster of this type which had been fabricated used by a member of the French Resistance, made from an old felt hat, covered with tent canvas and using horn coat buttons to hold an FN1992 Browning 7.65mm.

    Six inch and longer barrels are preferred for survival or rural field work, but harder to conceal in settled areas. A common method was to drop the gun butt-first into a bag of pomes frittes, or an improvised tote made from a folded newspaper tucked casually under the arm. Jim Cirrillo of the NYPD stake-out unit used this method frequently on undercover assignments, substituting a box of Cracker Jacks, movie popcorn or the New York Post and an M1911A1 for the .22.

    Name:  HiStdModB25ydsEleyStd.jpg
Views: 527
Size:  70.5 KB

    My survival “ruck gun” carried until 9/11 was a High Standard B with 6-7/8 barrel pistol inherited from the late Col. Gregory Kalinzky. Less known from his resume' are his time with flying with Air America, Air Zimbabwe, and also as a bush pilot in Alaska. http://www.146thalumni.org/last_flight.htm I received the pistol from Greg’s estate. When I got the pistol it proved accurate and reliable, but was thoroughly dirty. Detailed disassembly revealed that at one time it had undergone complete saltwater immersion. It had been rinsed promptly in fresh water, then probably doused in JP8. There was rust in crevices and blind holes, and brown residue under the grips and on concealed machined surfaces. Exterior blue remains good, original finish. After carding the internal rust off, installing replacement Wolfe springs, thorough cleaning, and reassembly, it resided in my survival ruck and often bagged an occasional grouse, or rabbit. [After 9/11 I replaced the .22 pistol in my ruck with a 6-inch, fixed sight .38 Special revolver because I wanted a firearm which accomplished the small game role, but having better defense capability and would reach out to 50 yards.]

    Name:  WoodsmanSmall.jpg
Views: 529
Size:  75.1 KB

    My Sport Model 4-1/2 inch Colt Woodsman was one of Harry’s “spares.” Harry was a big believer in redundancy and cached duplicates of essential equipment everywhere. I don’t think my Woodsman ever went on a mission, because it is too clean. It’s a “parts gun” assembled on a pre-war 1940 frame with post war slide and barrel having adjustable sights. Its target sights are nice, but lack the rugged durability I favor in a field gun.”

    While current fashion seems favor some variation of Ruger semi-auto, I've had my share of frustration which these. Out of the box, hand held from sandbags, Rugers average 1-1/2" ten-shot groups at 25 yards with standard velocity ammo of good quality. High speed ammo runs closer to two inches. Firing off a Ransom rest eliminates the human error, is not a realistic expectations of field utility because aiming and holding errors influence the "system error budget."

    The Ruger trigger as it comes from the factory often leaves some to be desired. Getting a match quality trigger pull usually requires a trip to the gunsmith, and replacement of factory parts with after-market ones. If you replace any springs you may induce function problems if you use anything other than high velocity ammo. HV loads often fail in the accuracy department, which defeats the whole purpose. I have little use for high velocity ammunition because it is usually less accurate, muzzle flashy and too noisy.

    I prefer fixed sights are best for a field or “survival” gun. You must spend range time to determine which ammo is reliable and accurate, get a good supply of that and then zero the gun. I recommend that fixed sights on a .22 be zeroed to strike about 1 inch above point of aim at 25 yards. Ruger adjustable sights don't stay put unless you flood them with LocTite. Many users today prefer compact red-dot sights. I have found them less rugged, your mileage may vary.

    The barrels and chambers on current Ruger Mk.III pistols are better than on guns I tested in the 1980s. Polymer-frame pistols are lighter, while providing a full sized gun to hold onto, but trigger and sight problems still exist. By the time you buy a new Mk. III, do a professional trigger job and put good optics on it, you've invested more than you would to find and obtain a very good “shooter-grade” Colt Woodsman or fine pre-war High Standard. I find the "full race Ruger" more bulky and less handy than "Target and Trapper" pistols of the 1930s and 40s, designed for the very survival situations we talk about and plan for.

    Some years ago I tested my Colt Sport Model 4-1/2" barrel hand-held off sandbags, indoors at 25 yards using its original iron sights. I fired five consecutive ten-shot groups with several ammos, then compared results against similar samples fired with some borrowed modern and older .22 revolvers and auto pistols which were deemed by their owners as "good shooters."

    The data below are averages of five consecutive 10-shot groups at 25 yards. Both Rugers were fired using a 4X Leupold pistol scope to do a better job of testing the pistols, rather than my ability see the sights! The High Standard Victor is a proven match gun used by a Master competitive shooter, intended as a benchmark.

    The High Standard Model B is 1942 production with saw WW2 and Vietnam service. I shot some old ammo from the survival seat pack and some new stuff.

    The Beretta 70S is the ca. 1968 "Jaguar" model, the lightest 6" barrel .22 autoloader I have ever seen, weighing only 20 oz. These came in 2-barrel sets with 3.5" and 6" barrels. They are difficult to shoot accurately, but are quality guns if you can find one.

    *Two High Standard Sentinel revolvers tested are both fixed sight 9-shooters found at pawn shops for around $150. These are ugly very serviceable if found in good mechanical condition which time and index well, without noticeable cylinder end play. I fired one 9-shot cylinder load in each per group.

    **The Colt Officer's Model Match was made in 1959 and is a target grade revolver, a 6-shooter. In it I fired TWO cylinder loads, totaling 12 shots per group.

    The Walther P.22 illustrates my disappointment with current offerings of compact .22 pistols. It was barely accurate enough for combat training on silhouette targets.

    Gun Bbl.Length Sights
    Ammo Avg. ES(Ins.) 5x10@25yds
    *

    1942 Colt Woodsman 4-1/2" irons
    CCI Std. (USA) 1.5"
    CCI Blazer (USA) 2.0"
    Eley Std (UK) 1.25"

    1942 High Standard Model B, 6/3/4" irons
    Korean era "Sterile Package Brown Box" FMJ Ball M24 2.0"
    Canuck (1965) HP 2.2"
    CCI Blazer (USA) 1.85"
    Eley Standard (UK) 1.5"

    HS Victor 5-1/2" irons
    Eley Std. (UK) 1.0"
    Eley Sport (Mexico) 1.3"

    HS Sentinel R107 revolver 4" irons
    CCI Std. (USA) 2.6"*
    Eley Std. (UK) 2.3"*
    Eley Sport (Mexico) 2.3"*
    CCI Blaser (USA) 2.3"*
    Winchester Super-X (USA) 2.7*

    HS Sentinel R103 revolver 6" irons
    Eley Sport (Mexico) 2"*
    CCI Blaser (USA) 2.2"*
    Winchester Super-X (USA) 2.5"*

    Ruger MkI 6-7/8" 4X Leupold
    CCI Std. (USA) 1.5"
    CCI Blazer (USA) 2"
    Eley Sport (Mexico) 1.1"

    Ruger Mk.III 5-1/2" 4X Leupold
    Eley Std. (UK) 1.25"
    Eley Sport (Mexico) 1.25"

    Walther P22 3.5" irons
    CCI Std. (USA) 4"
    CCI Blazer (USA) 5"+

    Beretta 70S 6" irons
    Eley Std. (UK) 2"

    Colt OM revolver 6" irons
    Eley Std. (UK) 2" **
    Eley Sport (Mexico) 2"**
    CCI Blaser (USA) 2"**

    I haven't seen anything in new .22 handguns which would make me replace my old Colt or High Standard. If you search auction sites you can still find a “shooter grade” Colt Woodsman, Huntsman or Challenger for around $700. A High Standard Model A, B, GB, D, H-B, or H-D in similar VG to Exc. condition will sell for $100 less than a Colt. The High Standard Model B uses the same magazines as the pre-war Colt Woodsman. It is similarly trim, light and accurate. A good used High Standard costs less than a new Ruger. A good used Colt costs less than buying the Ruger and then having it ""tricked out" by a gunsmith. The classic trapper's .22 autos are sure handy in the ruck and worth EVERY penny!

    Ordinary CCI Standard Velocity, the CCI Subsonic Hollow-Point and Eley Sport are the best bang for the buck. Some batches of CCI Blazer shoot OK, but you need to test. The CCI Subsonic HP is the only standard velocity round I have found which expands reliably in water jugs from my 4-1/2" Woodsman. I have found that the same bullets which expand well from the 4-1/2" Woodsman do not from revolvers. In revolvers you are better off with solids. High velocity is OK if you can find a batch of unplated stuff that is accurate. I use the Hanned SGB die to clip the noses off to make flat points, which are more effective.

    About 25 years ago I went through a succession of S&W .22 Kit Guns and K-22 revolvers. I didn't find any that would average consistently less than 2" at 25 yards hand held off handbags. A few were better than that on the Ransom Rest, but Harry's Woodsman put them all to shame when fired off sandbags.

    So practice with your .22 handgun frequently from a field position, using the sights you've got.

    Use a Para cord lanyard to steady it unless you can get Mr. Wabbit to stay STILL while you settle the gun in your Ransom rest... 8-)
    Last edited by Outpost75; 12-14-2021 at 01:17 PM.

  7. #47
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    Oklahoma

    That dude from Idaho is a bad influence.

  8. #48
    Site Supporter farscott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Dunedin, FL, USA
    As a huge fan of the older .22 designs like the Woodsman, the one big negative about these pistols is parts availability, especially magazines. Woodsman magazines, especially 1st series models, are essentially unobtanium. Later magazines can be found but often cost more than $100 each. The least expensive solution for 2nd and 3rd Series pistols is to buy Beretta U22 NEOS magazines, cut down the follower button, and (for the pistols with releases on the butt) sand down the floor plate to allow the magazine to latch.

    The older guns are lighter and do point easier than the modern Ruger and Browning offerings. The Ruger "Target" offerings are heavier with the balance point farther forward compared to the older field-grade pistols, but the Woodsman Target models have similar balance points. It does seem harder to find a new fixed-sight Ruger although my old LGS had a stainless Standard upper on a .22/45 Mark II lower for $400. Another $100 in Volquartsen action parts would result in a "trapper/hunter" pistol with a nice trigger and decent field accuracy. Parts are available everywhere as are magazines. Much less money than a Woodsman.

    The one big positive of a shooter-grade Woodsman is it responds really well to a Cerakote finish in terms of corrosion protection and reducing the need for lube while making one giggle at how an old gun shoots. My latest project started with a finish-challenged 1938 Woodsman with fixed sights on a 6.625" barrel. The finish and an extra magazine raised my total sunk cost to $900.

    The Belgian Brownings offer a similar experience to the Woodsman at lower cost with better parts availability. That makes sense as the Browning guns are essentially product-improved Woodsman pistols with a modicum of cost reduction. Magazines on these are also skyrocketing in price.
    Attached Images Attached Images   

  9. #49
    Site Supporter OlongJohnson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    "carbine-infested rural (and suburban) areas"
    They have the other shortcomings of a modern Buck Mark, but a "Challenge" variant of the Buck Mark at least has the pencil barrel like an old Challenger or Nomad. They have been made in recent years with 6.75 and 5.5 inch barrels. They are built on the URX frame, which means the URX grip goes right on. A 5.5 Challenge with a URX grip and everything tuned up is a compact, lightweight, decent little woods gun.
    .
    -----------------------------------------
    Not another dime.

  10. #50
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Montana
    Don't know how many different .22 pistols I've had, but the only one that remains is a Nelson Custom conversion unit. It's mounted on a Ruger lightweight CMD frame. Accurate, reliable, last shot hold open, and dry fire feature.




    Full size all steel guns can get a bit heavy with a suppressor.

    FWIW,

    Paul

User Tag List

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •