Petersburg Virginia bans guns from ALL public spaces

[Blades]

I guess everyone gets a rape whistle.

[P30]

As far as I've read there's a traditional interpretation of the 2nd Amendment and I suppose the Supreme Court has respected it so far. I suppose it means that the people can keep and bear handheld weapons like the infantry does. Is that true?

What about tradition in the US? In Germany, it's not in vogue according to mainstream media and the government (they brandish traditionalists as a kind of nazi). I like tradition more than the aforementioned.

[TGS]

My face and surrounding tables are safe, for now . . .

Challenge accepted.

[TGS]

As far as I've read there's a traditional interpretation of the 2nd Amendment and I suppose the Supreme Court has respected it so far. I suppose it means that the people can keep and bear handheld weapons like the infantry does. Is that true?

That hasn't been directly decided yet, but yeah that's the argument most 2A advocates hold.

SCOTUS's 1939 decision in Miller v US where SCOTUS decided that the 2A protects our right to bear arms in order to "maintain a well regulated militia". Thus, most 2A advocates argue that the 2A should protect our ability to own things like pistols and AR15s as anything designed to be employed by a single man serving in a militia fulfills such.

What about tradition in the US? In Germany, it's not in vogue according to mainstream media and the government (they brandish traditionalists as a kind of nazi). I like tradition more than the aforementioned.

Completely depends on where you go. Where I last lived in north New Jersey, even talking about guns in the workplace would likely get a phone call from the police. Whereas now where I live in the decidedly blue area of northern Virginia outside DC, my wife's coworkers openly talk about guns and sometimes go shooting on lunch break. Even within states, different parts of states can hold wildly varying different levels of support; New York City vs upstate New York being a great example. At the national level, we have congressional representatives who think that only the government should have any gun of any type, and we've got congressional representatives who treat guns like fashion accessories.

[trailrunner]

I've lived in Virginia for 30 years now. When I moved to Fairfax County in 1991, I could not get a CCW permit because it was a may-issue state, and Fairfax County just didn't like guns.

In 1995, it became a shall-issue state. I went to Richmond to rally, and I testified in Fairfax County in support of this change. Fairfax County tried to push back on that, but pre-emption protected us.

Over the years since then, the laws had been getting a bit more favorable for gun owners. Pre-emption kept Fairfax County in check whenever they tried to enact their own laws.

But in 2019, the entire state government flipped to Democrat majority, and it was evident that they were going to try to push a bunch of new anti-gun laws. Most of the focus seemed to be on them trying to ban ARs, and there was strong opposition, but in 2020 they also snuck in a bill to end pre-emption. I KNEW that was going to be a disaster, but nobody seemed to worry about it. And sure enough, that got passed.

Shortly after that, Fairfax County, along with Alexandria and Arlingon, passed local rules prohibiting guns in various parks and at some events. It's created a patchwork of laws. Technically, I can't take a walk down a wooded path by my house because I believe it is some sort of county park because there are some tennis courts there. It's a mess for gun owners. Both my state delegate and state senator voted in favor of ending pre-emption, and didn't even answer my polite emails urging them not to.

Now that Petersburg has passed this, I wouldn't be surprised if Fairfax County passes a similar law. Everything I predicted about ending pre-emption has come true.

[joshs]

I've lived in Virginia for 30 years now. When I moved to Fairfax County in 1991, I could not get a CCW permit because it was a may-issue state, and Fairfax County just didn't like guns.

In 1995, it became a shall-issue state. I went to Richmond to rally, and I testified in Fairfax County in support of this change. Fairfax County tried to push back on that, but pre-emption protected us.

Over the years since then, the laws had been getting a bit more favorable for gun owners. Pre-emption kept Fairfax County in check whenever they tried to enact their own laws.

But in 2019, the entire state government flipped to Democrat majority, and it was evident that they were going to try to push a bunch of new anti-gun laws. Most of the focus seemed to be on them trying to ban ARs, and there was strong opposition, but in 2020 they also snuck in a bill to end pre-emption. I KNEW that was going to be a disaster, but nobody seemed to worry about it. And sure enough, that got passed.

Shortly after that, Fairfax County, along with Alexandria and Arlingon, passed local rules prohibiting guns in various parks and at some events. It's created a patchwork of laws. Technically, I can't take a walk down a wooded path by my house because I believe it is some sort of county park because there are some tennis courts there. It's a mess for gun owners. Both my state delegate and state senator voted in favor of ending pre-emption, and didn't even answer my polite emails urging them not to.

Now that Petersburg has passed this, I wouldn't be surprised if Fairfax County passes a similar law. Everything I predicted about ending pre-emption has come true.

We've certainly been worried about any attempts to limit preemption. We're also suing Fairfax County over the parks ban: https://www.nraila.org/articles/2021...over-parks-ban

[TheNewbie]

I used to work for a city that tried this. No carry on any city owned property (sidewalks, parks, etc.). I told my shift in no uncertain terms that we would not be enforcing what was clearly an unconstitutional city ord. It was challenged by local attorneys and it just quietly went away.

Thank you for standing up on behalf of the constitution.

[Sanch]

This is why state pre-emption is a damn good thing.

You know what would be even better? Federal pre-emption. Like, if the constitution said something about the right to bear arms and how no level of government could infringe upon that. Would be a hell of an idea if our founders had the foresight to add it in. Maybe next time.

[Sanch]

It gets complicated because the Supreme Court of the United States has determined in the past that rights are not absolute, and therefore subject to "reasonable restriction" (or "regulation", can't remember the exact wording).

I love it. The government gets to re-interpret the definition of the document that restricts their powers to make it less restrictive, as they deem appropriate.

[fly out]

@P30 An old joke in the U.S. is that the American Civil Liberties Union counts to ten, "One, Three, Four..." The Second Amendment has long been neglected and little serious discussion happened for a hundred-plus years.

Sanford Levinson, a liberal University of Texas law professor, wrote an interesting article in 1989, entitled The Embarrassing Second Amendment, and it was mildly seismic. (1989 was the year I started law school, and it was a hot topic of discussion among a subset of students and professors.)

It might be an interesting read for someone looking to see the left's thoughts on the Second Amendment. Or, it might be too deep of a dive.