I agree. Consider using a heavy mag spring and mag shims from 460Rowland. I have found that eliminates FTF malfunctions common with G20s and heavy 10mm loads.Originally Posted by Lost River
I agree. Consider using a heavy mag spring and mag shims from 460Rowland. I have found that eliminates FTF malfunctions common with G20s and heavy 10mm loads.
“There is no growth in the comfort zone.”--Jocko Willink
"You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
Ok, wow. Never heard of that.
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corneileous
I apologize to you my Friend if that came across wrong. What I was trying to say was that you might be over analyzing it and to just roll with what you have. People tend to go down rabbit holes and worry about minutia that when it comes to real life/in the field stuff, makes absolutely no difference.
Much like hunting animals, people spend crazy amounts of time worrying about (and debating) cartridges, projectiles, etc. In reality, they are all more alike than most realize and elk will tip over dead with a well placed shot from a .243 just as quickly as they will when shot with a .338. That is one reason why I have hunted with an inadequate .308 for so long. Precise placement has more to do with the ability to kill things than foot pounds of energy.
I have no issue carrying a .45 ACP in grizzly/black bear country here in the northern Rockies, same as others here on this site, so I would not worry about it in Oklahoma at all either.
It’s cool man, no apology needed…[emoji846]corneileous
I apologize to you my Friend if that came across wrong. What I was trying to say was that you might be over analyzing it and to just roll with what you have. People tend to go down rabbit holes and worry about minutia that when it comes to real life/in the field stuff, makes absolutely no difference.
Much like hunting animals, people spend crazy amounts of time worrying about (and debating) cartridges, projectiles, etc. In reality, they are all more alike than most realize and elk will tip over dead with a well placed shot from a .243 just as quickly as they will when shot with a .338. That is one reason why I have hunted with an inadequate .308 for so long. Precise placement has more to do with the ability to kill things than foot pounds of energy.
I have no issue carrying a .45 ACP in grizzly/black bear country here in the northern Rockies, same as others here on this site, so I would not worry about it in Oklahoma at all either.
I know I might’ve been victim a time or two of that but on certain things- when you don’t know, you just simply don’t know until you ask. If I would’ve known a lot of what I’ve learned in this thread, I probably could’ve done without my 10 mm if I felt confident enough that my full-size Beretta PX4 45 with some a hard casts in it would do the job against pretty much anything we have around here but no, I’m not complaining about that at all, I love my 10 mm, I’m very proud of that pistol and I wouldn’t sell it for anything… LOL. The Springfield…. it might be better off in my pocket reserved for two-legged predators…lol.
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Your quote about time is spot on,hence why I carry a Glock 17 with 147 gr HST vs a Glock 21 and 230 gr GD. My groups are tighter,splits are shorter,and I'm about a second faster in overall time on the clock. I'm assuming the same would happen in a self-defense shooting as well.
The Underwood hardcast are some of the best 10mm rounds available I have gotten 5 feet of penetration in my test. The 10mm HST also did very well as a SD round. They will take care of anything you are likely to run across in OK.
The .45ACP is very underrated as a field load and with the right loads will nip at the heals of the 10mm and probably be just as effective in the real world.
https://general-cartridge.com/2020/0...allistics-gel/
https://general-cartridge.com/2019/0...allistics-gel/
https://general-cartridge.com/2019/0...allistics-gel/
We could isolate Russia totally from the world and maybe they could apply for membership after 2000 years.
Thank you for that. I guess with either the 200 grain or the 220 grain Underwood hard cast 10mm’s, I really can’t go wrong with either, huh? I guess there was really no rhyme or reason why I went with the 220 grain’ers, I just figured the heavier bullet was better.
As far as the 45 ACP hard casts, that’s pretty impressive. A lot more than what I would’ve given them credit for being that I’ve always heard from the 10mm fanboys is that the 45 is too slow for what it’s good for. I’m not sure what all the Underwood 180 or 185 grain[whatever they are] +P’s with the SGD bullets I have would be good for but I have ‘em for something….lol.
That’s also impressive on the 10mm HST’s. I really wish I woulda got some but hopefully ammo prices will come down some day so I can get some. Right now about the cheapest I can find is 45 bucks for 20. May have to just bite the bullet and get some while I can.
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I think whether the first round or frankly all the rounds are HST or hardcast or Lehigh XPs is unlikely to make a difference using a pistol to defend yourself against dangerous animals.
I think there's a moral component. If this situation is likely you owe it to the animal and to the guy that has to go into the brush to kill the wounded animal to use the choice that makes an eventually dead animal more likely. I doubt that situation being likely is as common as some think.
I guess I don’t quite understand what you’re talking about in that last part. I mean, I think I understand the first part when you say pretty much that it doesn’t matter what I use as you say it won’t make a difference but how will it not make a difference especially when you take the HST‘s, the gold dots and even the Sig V-crowns I have compared to either the had casts and the Lehigh extreme penetrators when I always thought that when it had to do with animals with thick fur and hides, you want penetration a lot more than you want expansion from of a hollow point…
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Service caliber pistols are not a good choice when it comes to actually stopping a dangerous animal charge. They have a better track record than magnum caliber revolvers in defensive usage against dangerous animals. This comes down to the ability to actually get the pistol out, on target and firing, which is easier with service caliber pistols and often more familiar to most users. When pistols have failed the majority of the time they didn't clear the holster.
North American dangerous game charging through a hail of bullets to drag down people is mostly a myth. People anthropomorphize animals. A bear doesn't know what a gun is. If it gets hit, it might turn and charge the nearest threat it sees but if noise and pain keep coming from that direction it's going to flee if you let it.
Even with a proper caliber rifle for bear hunting a head on shot is a poor shot and most guides will not let you take that shot unless they know you because there's too much chance of deflection, and that's if you have a shot at the sternum which you won't on a charging animal. This is with properly constructed hunting bullets coming from a rifle. So the idea that even a hardcast bullet coming from a service caliber handgun is going to physically stop a charge is unlikely unless the CNS is hit, and most quality ammunition can penetrate a bear skull if it hits at the right angle.
So the ammunition type isn't likely to make much difference on whether a charge is turned. It could, but it's not worth clearing a chamber over. Where it comes into play is on subsequent shots while the animal is whirling on whatever bit them or both of you are moving and it's getting hit again and again. In that situation proper bullet selection turns a single lung hit and an animal slowly dying and dangerous to passersby into a double lung hit and a quickly dead animal. That's important to the guy that has to go into the alders and make sure it's dead or to the family hiking nearby. It's important to the animal too.
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