Irons and Red Generational User Question

[BehindBlueI's]

@BehindBlueI's

Excellent assessment as always!

Do you think that in time with improved technology, reliable closed emitter optics on handguns could address enough of those issues to become worthwhile?

I think that’s where rifles are at for duty currently but rifle and pistol have different uses.

And while this is like a bad meme, I wonder if someone could integrate offset irons into a pistol slide to overcome mud packing of lenses.

I think closed units with lenses treated with rainx might mitigate a good bit of the issue, maybe cleared with a quick tap or shake of the pistol similar to if there was a glob of mud on your irons. Open emitter you’re fucked though.

I think they are likely worthwhile now for many users, including many in uniformed patrol, but care must be taken in holster selection and protection of the optic. A hooded holster can already address many of the issues. The gun-bucket-with-a-strap holsters are probably no longer a good idea. I carry concealed now, both on and off duty, so I'd have to be a right mess to get mud under my suit jacket, although of course there could be some Lemony Snicketts Series of Unfortunate Events that lead to me having glass obscured by mud/blood/whatever is available. I'll still likely go to a dot for on duty carry once they are authorized.

I suppose you could incorporate some sort of offsets, although I don't know how that'd work with holsters and if it would be worth it.

I do like the idea of treatments on the glass. Fogging would likely be mitigated as well.

[JCN]

I'll still likely go to a dot for on duty carry once they are authorized.

I suppose you could incorporate some sort of offsets, although I don't know how that'd work with holsters and if it would be worth it.

I do like the idea of treatments on the glass. Fogging would likely be mitigated as well.

It’s one of the ways that gaming can at least give more data that might be applicable to practical use as there are thousands of man hours of inclement weather dot pistol shooting to draw from.

The emitter and open window is the biggest issue for a lot of weather related failures. To the point where I thought about putting a closed emitter on a frame mounted Open gun.

RainX works great and a little shake / tap / blow on it clears the window. Shooting also self-cleans water but that’s not ideal for the first shot.

What I was thinking about irons was like this:

Glock 23 at 7 yards with a barrel laser, sighted using the upper outer corner of the slide as “sights.”

It works very well even out to 15 yards.





I could see that being taught as a “oh fuck my dot window” backup to the BUIS if you have a slab sided gun.

[BehindBlueI's]

Glock 23 at 7 yards with a barrel laser, sighted using the upper outer corner of the slide as “sights.”

We were exposed to using the slide as an aiming tool, but I never used the corners. That's a good thought. I suppose one could incorporate a trench sight into the corner of the slide to make it a bit more precise.

[JCN]

We were exposed to using the slide as an aiming tool, but I never used the corners. That's a good thought. I suppose one could incorporate a trench sight into the corner of the slide to make it a bit more precise.

While it would be gross overkill and engineering to have a backup to a backup to a backup sighting system (as opposed to just carrying a BUG), if I had unlimited resources and was going to overengineer something I’d do a gutter with a fiber optic embedded in the corner.

A simple fiber rod would suffice but if there was space to get fancy, I’ve really enjoyed using these:



Could be put in a corner with the light window for fiber cut in the side of the slide.

[Hambo]

Lastly, I'm a curmudgeon.

Signed, Gen X dude who's dot curious and experimenting but still not quite all in.

-When pistol mounted optics hold up like rifle mounted optics, I'll start looking at them. If they start needing software updates, I'll never consider them.
-I probably shouldn't shoot anyone at 25 yards or farther. It's not the sights, it's how it looks to teh state attorney. There's also the reality that if there are any gunfights in my future, they will likely be at a distance where irons=dots.
-I don't compete at the level I used to, or any other level these days, so there's nothing there.

I get the attraction. If RDS had hit this point twenty years ago, I'd have been on them like a motherfucker.

[HeavyDuty]

I’m 59. I am forcing myself to become more comfortable with RDS, to the point of having a RDS only carry gun in the works (a 26.5 at Battlewerx being milled for a RMRcc) - but I left room for a rear sight to be added if the experiment is a failure. I do believe RDS will become the norm, but I don’t think modern irons only guns will ever completely fade away. For me, it’s a practical issue because as my eyes age the RDS becomes easier to use than irons.

[JCN]

-When pistol mounted optics hold up like rifle mounted optics, I'll start looking at them. If they start needing software updates, I'll never consider them.
-I probably shouldn't shoot anyone at 25 yards or farther. It's not the sights, it's how it looks to teh state attorney. There's also the reality that if there are any gunfights in my future, they will likely be at a distance where irons=dots.
-I don't compete at the level I used to, or any other level these days, so there's nothing there.

I get the attraction. If RDS had hit this point twenty years ago, I'd have been on them like a motherfucker.

I resisted putting a dot on my carry gun for a long time but finally succumbed.

I personally feel that we each have to choose the equipment that best suits our preferences and addresses the types of self defense scenarios we might encounter.

The thing that finally pushed me over the edge was how much performance loss I had with black irons when lighting wasn’t good and the target had poor contrast. Hit confidence suffered quite a bit at speed even within 10 yards.

The dot shines (pun intended) in this kind of scenario as long as you have a good auto-adjust light sensor that doesn’t blind you with intensity.

So thinking that an evening parking structure attack might be a scenario I would want to address, I reluctantly embraced the dot for carry.

[Corse]

-

I get the attraction. If RDS had hit this point twenty years ago, I'd have been on them like a motherfucker.

Pistol mounted red dots from 20yrs ago. CC that thing.





Also, I have been shown techniques, similar using the back of the slide on iron sighted guns, to aim with the body of the optic.

[HeavyDuty]

I went with an RMRcc for this 26 and have a second one waiting for either a 43 or a P365, but I hope that we will see smaller closed emitter sights suitable for CC before much longer. Something like a mini-ACRO. People need to see that there is a balance between window size and concealability, and designs that have minimal or no frame will help that. How that will be done, I have no idea - but the Docter MOS sight was an interesting first attempt:

[Cheap Shot]

My vision at distance is good, but I have Presbyopia. When people talk about front sight focus, I always wonder which one, and why are they all fuzzy?

Ive got an RMR on a gun I use for CCW and USPSA. Its allowed me to continue to "aim". Its failed once in 7ish years. The RMR came loose, I discovered and tightened it when preparing for a class. A couple days later at the class it came loose again. The nstructor ID'd the problem. Awkward

Sometimes you learn things the hard way. I sighted the gun in shooting offhand during class exercises and drove on. Loctited the @$&?+/ RMR as soon as I got home. Much higher vigilance now monitoring the RMR mount.