Tactical Accuracy of Polymer-framed Pistols vs. Metal Pistols

[jnc36rcpd]

We've seen any number of videos or read reports of pistols malfunctioning during gunfights. Glocks and other polymer pistols seem to predominate these incidents, but of course, polymer pistols are very prevalent in law enforcement and the CCW world. I will note that most videos probably video LEO's and armed citizens using full-size pistols. (I know that smaller pistols may have issues due to their size.)

While quality polymer pistols will function all day on the square range, are they more prone to failure than metal pistols during the dynamic nature of gunfighting (movement, imperfect grips)?

I'm definitely not a hater of the polymer pistol. I currently carry Glocks, but would be happy with an M&P, polymer HK or Walther, or perhaps even an APX. (Let's not get into SIG 320 issues.)

Thanks and be safe.

[JRB]

We've seen any number of videos or read reports of pistols malfunctioning during gunfights. Glocks and other polymer pistols seem to predominate these incidents, but of course, polymer pistols are very prevalent in law enforcement and the CCW world. I will note that most videos probably video LEO's and armed citizens using full-size pistols. (I know that smaller pistols may have issues due to their size.)

While quality polymer pistols will function all day on the square range, are they more prone to failure than metal pistols during the dynamic nature of gunfighting (movement, imperfect grips)?

I'm definitely not a hater of the polymer pistol. I currently carry Glocks, but would be happy with an M&P, polymer HK or Walther, or perhaps even an APX. (Let's not get into SIG 320 issues.)

Thanks and be safe.

Depends entirely on the specific pistols being compared, not frame material. There's plenty of awesome and highly vetted polymer guns (Glock, S&W M&P, HK, etc) and plenty of absolutely unreliable turds with steel or alloy frames.

Speaking from my own limited perspective, I can't recall a single story, account, or situation I've read about or heard about where a malfunction in a gunfight was in any way affected by the frame material.
I've read a lot about malfunctions caused by sheer chaos that would have likely stopped any pistol, and just straight up weird malfunctions/issues/outcomes that would be difficult to duplicate on even the most elaborate test battery or simulation.

If you trust a gun for your purposes, and you can properly demonstrate safe handling, reliability, and proficiency on a square range or in a training class - that pistol is probably just fine for your needs. If it's chambered in a common defensive round, made by a reputable company known for duty firearms, and carried in a safe and effective holster, that's just that much better.

[paherne]

I think it's a video issue. We never had video when metal-framed pistols were in common police use. Now, almost every police shootout is recorded and the vast majority of police carry polymer-framed pistols. I'm willing to bet that we would have seen interesting things back in the DA revolver days if all cops had BWCs then. "They don't think it be like it is, but it do," Oscar Gamble.

[breakingtime91]

I am under the impression that limp writing a polymer has a more drastic effect on polymer framed gun than metal. A recent video of an officer with a injured hand illustrated this. He still won the day but was racking his slide after each shot for the most part. I limp wrist tested my 229 with just one finger holding the frame and the rest lovely holding it, functioned and ejected well for 10 rounds. I test this because my wife is a new shooter and I worry about her limp writing in an emergency. Glocks wouldn't function. Just my 2 cents

[JCN]

I am under the impression that limp writing a polymer has a more drastic effect on polymer framed gun than metal. A recent video of an officer with a injured hand illustrated this. He still won the day but was racking his slide after each shot for the most part. I limp wrist tested my 229 with just one finger holding the frame and the rest lovely holding it, functioned and ejected well for 10 rounds. I test this because my wife is a new shooter and I worry about her limp writing in an emergency. Glocks wouldn't function. Just my 2 cents

That’s often a Glock RSA sprung for +P ammo issue.

Softer RSA fixes the limp wristing and I’d rather have a battered frame than a single shot pistol.

[Caballoflaco]

I am under the impression that limp writing a polymer has a more drastic effect on polymer framed gun than metal. A recent video of an officer with a injured hand illustrated this. He still won the day but was racking his slide after each shot for the most part. I limp wrist tested my 229 with just one finger holding the frame and the rest lovely holding it, functioned and ejected well for 10 rounds. I test this because my wife is a new shooter and I worry about her limp writing in an emergency. Glocks wouldn't function. Just my 2 cents

FWIW If that’s the event I’m thinking about in San Antonio I read recently that the round he took in his strong hand also broke the trigger guard and damaged the pistol. I imagine that a steel or aluminum frame gun might have suffered similar if not worse problems due to the elasticit deformation of those materials. Ie crimping the mag in the gun and bullets in the magazine.


I’m with @paherne on this one, and believe that current autopistols, including plastic guns are the more reliable now than at any time in history, it’s just that shit happens.

ETA: it was in the comments on this break down. So, it might be pure bullshit but has a tone of truth that makes me believe it to be likely.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2Da-IxH9aCQ

Christopher Potts
Hey donut, his name really is pronounced “savage”. He rode with me and my partner on his Proby rides. He’s a solid troop. The gun itself was actually badly damaged, light kit and part of the trigger guard and grip got blown off
Rest of the round his hand caught. I texted him this video. You made his day!
1 month ago

Christopher Potts
@whisperingmists the only issue I have with the breakdowns (donut has the best) is that all the facts of the engagement have not been put out and too many people doing the breakdown speculate on courses or action taken,

Especially when it came to his weapon failure issues, his weapon got FUCKED UP and it’s not mentioned anywhere by the dept

[Hot Sauce]

What in particular makes a gun more prone to limp wristing failures? The weight or the added frame flex?

Are there some polymer-framed pistols that are measurably less prone limp-wristing than others? Has someone done this kind of testing in an organized way?

The other thing we have to note is that limp wristing may not be the sole cause for failures in this context. I've seen enough support thumbs slowing a slide down on a square range, so I'd expect it to happen during sudden draw tactical scenarios as well.

[breakingtime91]

Interesting on the gun being damaged but I am still under the impression that polymer guns have more issues with that sort of thing than heavier framed guns. I know SLG doesn't post anymore but many of us remember him. When I shot with him he carried an issued glock but commented how much more he liked p series sigs because they are inherently more accurate over high round counts than polymer framed guns. Once again all of this is opinion. I think for most people that train and grip the gun hard, you will most likely be good to go

[KevH]

Polymer frame versus metal frame makes no difference. None whatsoever.

Gunfights induce stress and a chemical physiological response like almost nothing else one can imagine.

This dump of adrenaline and cortisol causes people to do wonky things and often these are manifested in weapons malfunctions and other "unique" behaviors. Some of the behavior elements will leave the involved second guessing what they did for years (even if everything else ultimately worked out or seemed seamless to those around them).

As mentioned earlier in this thread, we now have BWC we can watch and critique whereas no one ever would have noticed these oddities in the past (witnesses and the involved are generally hyper-focused during the actual event), especially if the officer prevailed.

[1slow]

A lot of reliability has to do with how the pistol is sprung and ammo used rather than metal vs. plastic.
A steel gun made to the same specs as a plastic frame may cycle better because extra frame weight helps the gun stay more still and let the slide cycle on the frame more robustly.

I seem to remember a thread on HK Pro asking HK Factory service about what gave the least trouble.
USP 45s, HK 45s gave little trouble because the cartridge made up for limp wristing.
Longer P30L 9mm were more sensitive to light ammo and light grip. If you use NATO or +P no issues in my experience.