Gen 5 23 MOS field pistol project

[fpnunes]

I shot my 23 MOS with the 509T again today. Sweet shooting pistol that feels very un-40'ish in recoil. Was using lawman 180 ball and 180 Gold Dot JHP. This is 20 yards with the Gold Dot in windy conditions.

I tried the same load weak hand at 12 yards to test reliability.

Tony says my George holsters (one for a TLR-7) will arrive in a few days, and I think I will start EDC'ing the 23, I like how it shoots that much.

Excellent results! I've enjoyed following this thread - thanks GJM.

[BJJ]

Very cool! I really appreciate you documenting your experiment. It makes me wonder how shootable the Gen 5 Glock 22 is. I shot a match recently where one of the other shooters was competing in carry optics with a Gen 5 Glock 22 set up for concealed carry. He said the same thing you did… that it was like shooting 9mm +p.

I always like the idea of .40. Just not the execution.

Another .40 load to try is the Federal 165 gr Tactical Bonded LE40T3.
Excellent accuracy for me in multiple HK pistols. Bone Frog Gun Club has it in stock.

[fatdog]

I look forward to GJM's work on this project and his conclusions.

One thing I wondered about was the G23.5 and hardcast for this application.

For some time Underwood and others have offered a 200gr coated hardcast claimed to be 1000 fps. https://www.underwoodammo.com/40-s-w...flat-nose.html

And Federal introduced a load, not sure if they have ever actually shipped any yet, but basically the same specs and stated purpose. https://www.federalpremium.com/handg...1-P40SHC1.html

There are some penetration tests out there on the internet for the Underwood load and it appears to be quite good at that.

I purchased 120 rounds of the Underwood load just to see if they would run in the 23.5, that is not a big quantity or sample but all I was willing to spend on the first go round.



the good:

-same POA/POI relationship as both the iron sights and the dot, could not measure any difference compared to 180gr Gold Dots which these guns are set up for
-groups just as tight as all of the 180gr loads I use, good accuracy
-felt recoil is actually softer than all the 180gr loads, very controllable
-average velocity 977 fps, SD =6 for 10 rounds over the chrono

the bad:
-two identical malfunctions, in both cases the very last round in the magazine, in both cases it was a failure to feed/go into battery, happened once in each gun over the 10 mags of this stuff I ran today, in both cases the extractor did not snap over the rim, these were some older gen 3 mags, not the latest version, but they had not given problems before nor has either gun.

[1Rangemaster]

It’s a possibility that the Gen3 mag springs are weak- they would be, what, 15-20 years old? Hypothesis: old spring would not get the round in the right position, so the rim doesn’t slide under the extractor and is just sort of pushed up into the chamber sluggishly-the extractor is not suppose to “snap” over the rim as in some (rifle) designs.
The fact it’s the last round is sort of an indicator to me…

[Caballoflaco]

Some g22 mag springs in those 23 mags might be worth a shot.

[GJM]

I look forward to GJM's work on this project and his conclusions.

One thing I wondered about was the G23.5 and hardcast for this application.

For some time Underwood and others have offered a 200gr coated hardcast claimed to be 1000 fps. https://www.underwoodammo.com/40-s-w...flat-nose.html

And Federal introduced a load, not sure if they have ever actually shipped any yet, but basically the same specs and stated purpose. https://www.federalpremium.com/handg...1-P40SHC1.html

There are some penetration tests out there on the internet for the Underwood load and it appears to be quite good at that.

I purchased 120 rounds of the Underwood load just to see if they would run in the 23.5, that is not a big quantity or sample but all I was willing to spend on the first go round.



the good:

-same POA/POI relationship as both the iron sights and the dot, could not measure any difference compared to 180gr Gold Dots which these guns are set up for
-groups just as tight as all of the 180gr loads I use, good accuracy
-felt recoil is actually softer than all the 180gr loads, very controllable
-average velocity 977 fps, SD =6 for 10 rounds over the chrono

the bad:
-two identical malfunctions, in both cases the very last round in the magazine, in both cases it was a failure to feed/go into battery, happened once in each gun over the 10 mags of this stuff I ran today, in both cases the extractor did not snap over the rim, these were some older gen 3 mags, not the latest version, but they had not given problems before nor has either gun.

Great contribution!

Some years ago, after having reliability problems with the Glock 20/29, I went to a Glock 22 with a KKM barrel and hard cast. I ultimately ran into reliability problems, especially with just a few rounds left in the magazine, causing me to abandon that project. Whatever the advantage of a hard cast in pure penetration, is for my use trumped by reliability, and I plan to stick with jacketed bullets, mainly the Lehigh as a penetrator.

[JHC]

Great contribution!

Some years ago, after having reliability problems with the Glock 20/29, I went to a Glock 22 with a KKM barrel and hard cast. I ultimately ran into reliability problems, especially with just a few rounds left in the magazine, causing me to abandon that project. Whatever the advantage of a hard cast in pure penetration, is for my use trumped by reliability, and I plan to stick with jacketed bullets, mainly the Lehigh as a penetrator.

200 grains in the .40 at 1000 fps (Federal load) might be pushing the envelope for reliability across many platforms. Same might apply to the other solid core loadings.

https://www.federalpremium.com/handg...ng/solid-core/


The .45 ACP load is 240 gr at 1000 fps. dang.

[GJM]

A few logistical updates. While the G5 23 is similar in many ways to a 9mm Glock, it is different in slide size and holsters, and of course magazines. Since I have so many 9mm Glocks, I wanted an easy way to differentiate the 9 from the .40, and have tentatively settled on making the .40 stuff green. That means the JM George for the 23 and another for the 23 with a TLR7 are green.



I have a green Glock 17 Safariland RDS holster with Chris at Ghostmen being modified to work with the thicker .40. I also have Tango Down green magazine based plates on the way.

I was into the big city all yesterday and carried the 23 MOS /TLR7 in a George, and not surprisingly it was indistinguishable from doing the same with a 19.

[GJM]

2014, god bless the internet:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....or-a-woods-gun

[1Rangemaster]

Some g22 mag springs in those 23 mags might be worth a shot.

Might not be able to load 13 rounds-extra spring coil(s) might stack too high to prevent last round seating. Dunno, don’t have any to test…
Did it run with newer G5 mags?