Staggered Mini-9 Discussion

[45dotACP]

I'd be interested to hear what @LangdonTactical has to say about the Hellcat. I'm seeing a LTT page about them and I'm intrigued as to what about them appeals to a guy like Ernest over their contemporaries.

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[FNFAN]

Interesting to see the Wilson X9s didn't make the original list. I had an opportunity to run a few mags through the SIG 365x and found it very accurate and with a surprisingly manageable trigger. The grip was so small however, I could only put the ridge of my support hand on the grip. I've had a Glock 26 Gen3 and didn't enjoy shooting that with or without an extension and while it was accurate, I found it unappealing and sold it. Enter the Wilson EDC X9. I shot a friend's gun after a match and it was pretty much a "Wow!" moment. Shoots like a much larger gun, enough grip for a good support hand purchase. Flush magazines offer 10+1 and the extended mag doesn't do much to make it less concealable and brings the count up to 15+1. One of the little plusses for me and the EDC X9/X9s are the magazines. Very high quality and easy to load. Loading SIG 365x mags immediately took me back to the days of loading Colt Woodsman .22 mags with that rough scratchy snaggy feel. It is a few ounces heavier than the listed guns, but for me it hits the 3 Bears "Juuuust Right" spot.




X9s vs SIG 365x




X9s vs G26

Shout out to the Handgun Hero sight for their easy overlay comparison tool.

[octagon]

I would like to transition to an optic ready, long barreled version of these guns for all of my carry purposes, BUT:

Shield Plus 4" Optic Ready-
Great ergonomics and size. However, no provision for a frame rail to attach a TLR-7 sub or equivalent light. Also, they will not sell me one without CT RDS installed like a more annoying/expensive version of Glock plastic sights, and the footprint still requires modification to install a Holosun "K" footprint RDS as I understand it.


Sig P365XL-
Nice little gun. I've carried one a bit. However, the grip frame is just a tad bit too small for me to replace a larger gun in terms of draw index and shootabillity. So close. Very concealable, but I don't personally need it to be quite that concealable.


Glock 48 MOS-
I just don't like what they did with the recoil spring assembly. I don't trust it to feed defensive hollowpoint ammo reliably over time because of this. Perhaps I'm being silly, but I can't shake the impression. It's a pity.



I think an optic ready Shield Plus 4" with a decent red dot and frame rail would do 95% of anything I need a pistol to do. Based on how long it took S&W to produce a 15 round grip frame for the M&P, I will not be expecting this any time soon.

A railed, optic ready, 4" Shield Plus with an extended grip frame that only accepted 13 round mags without spacer would make an interesting hybrid of a duty/carry pistol. It's my dream gun. We will never see one.

Consider the Mossberg MC2C and do an optic cut. It is basically identical in size to the Glock 48 or 4" Shield plus but has a accessory rail and full length RSA. Glock like function and internals and has 13 round metal mags OEM.

The Arex Delta M Gen 2 is also very close in size but starts with 15 round mags.

I am in similar position/thinking but the 365XL actually fits my hand well.

[4RNR]

I would like to transition to an optic ready, long barreled version of these guns for all of my carry purposes, BUT:

Shield Plus 4" Optic Ready-
Great ergonomics and size. However, no provision for a frame rail to attach a TLR-7 sub or equivalent light. Also, they will not sell me one without CT RDS installed like a more annoying/expensive version of Glock plastic sights, and the footprint still requires modification to install a Holosun "K" footprint RDS as I understand it.


Sig P365XL-
Nice little gun. I've carried one a bit. However, the grip frame is just a tad bit too small for me to replace a larger gun in terms of draw index and shootabillity. So close. Very concealable, but I don't personally need it to be quite that concealable.


Glock 48 MOS-
I just don't like what they did with the recoil spring assembly. I don't trust it to feed defensive hollowpoint ammo reliably over time because of this. Perhaps I'm being silly, but I can't shake the impression. It's a pity.



I think an optic ready Shield Plus 4" with a decent red dot and frame rail would do 95% of anything I need a pistol to do. Based on how long it took S&W to produce a 15 round grip frame for the M&P, I will not be expecting this any time soon.

A railed, optic ready, 4" Shield Plus with an extended grip frame that only accepted 13 round mags without spacer would make an interesting hybrid of a duty/carry pistol. It's my dream gun. We will never see one.

Wouldn't the Shield+ 4" be about the same thing as the 365xl? They're in the same category. The 365xl has a 3.7" barrel, is optics ready, has rail and comes in 12 flush /15 extended round mag.

As far as I can remember the shield it has a slightly larger grip but that's about it

EDIT
Actually now that I look at the dimensions the Shield+4 isn't all that far from a G19

https://www.handgunhero.com/compare/...-shield-plus-4

[frozentundra]

Wouldn't the Shield+ 4" be about the same thing as the 365xl? They're in the same category. The 365xl has a 3.7" barrel, is optics ready, has rail and comes in 12 flush /15 extended round mag.

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We have a P365 XL. I think It's a great pistol for a certain purpose, but I find even the original S&W Shield 3.1" with an 8 round magazine to be more controllable and much easier to grip/index on the draw. I think it's mostly because of grip size/shape. Something about the 365 XL grip just doesn't interface well with my hands, and I don't have extra large hands. This makes it more of a deep concealment gun for me, and not a true M&P 2.0 Compact/G19 replacement. It works better for other members of household and their purposes. I don't find the Shield extended magazines much harder to conceal, but they do seem quite a bit easier for me to grip.


I have never tried the XL with the 15 round mags. They look crazy big to me. Probably outside of my Goldilocks zone.

[TGS]

Interesting to see the Wilson X9s didn't make the original list.

It's a "traditional" double-stack pistol like the G26, not a staggered-slimline or whatever this new genre is called that cuts the difference between a traditional double stack and traditional single stack. It's significantly thicker than the P365 and gang.

[Mitch]

I think the P365 is really the gun to beat in this segment. The guns run and shoot well. And there are parts and holsters available. The only problems I have with one is I’ve shot glocks for so long I naturally push sigs a little low, and I’m not sure where I come down on the 320. I’d like a pair of micro 9s and something the size of a glock 19/45 for training, home defense, and to be a little more enjoyable to shoot.

I don’t know if that means a pair of 365s and a 320. I know it’s not a 43x/48 and glock 45. To me the 43X/48 is a 10 round glock 19 with more questionable reliability. Not for me.

If shield plus mags were available I’d probably have one of those and an M&P compact.

Right now I have 1 p365. I don’t see anything else in the market that I would go for, unless the shield magazine situation changes. If that doesn’t happen soon and I get set up with 365 mags, holsters, and a spare gun, then that’s it for me.

[Wonder9]

Therein lies one of the rubs- there are people who think they absolutely HAVE to have a particular gun (SIG 365, I am currently looking at you) or they won't be cool. Or their genitalia will alter size, or... or something.


If there is one mini-9 to rule them all, I am just not seeing it with my own eyes yet.

I can bash modern Sig Sauer all day long, but the P365 really eats the lunch of other micro 9s.

[HCM]

Interesting to see the Wilson X9s didn't make the original list.

Agree with @TGS the X9, G26 etc are double stack guns and not relevant here. Regardless of their capacity or subcompact length and height they are full thickness guns and thus “carry” differently.

The attraction of stagger mag guns is they “carry” like single stack guns..

I pocket snd ankle carried a G26 for several years and it’s a small brick.

[gato naranja]

I can bash modern Sig Sauer all day long, but the P365 really eats the lunch of other micro 9s.

Size-wise, probably. At least until the next new Gromaz* comes around.

For me, it is like all modern SIGs: totally unfriendly to my hands/fingers... it also pushes compactness to where I constantly have some part of an appendage either out in space or some place where it shouldn't be.

*Größter Mini aller Zeiten