I dedicated 2-3 years to the LEM in two P2000's and a P2000sk. By the end of that, I loved the LEM and shot it pretty well, by my standards, anyway. But I remained frustrated by the difficulty mounting a dot. So I switched back to Glock 19's early this year.
I still get nostalgic about the HK's occasionally, so last week I dusted off the P2000 and shot it side by side with an iron-sighted G19. I found that I vastly prefer the G19 trigger now.
I was a die hard Sig fan for years. P226, P229, P228 and P225s were some of my favorite pistols and then QC went to shit when Exeter decided profits > end user quality. I'm old enough to remember when German made Sigs were dead nuts reliable and solidly built. Those days are long gone and so am I as a Sig customer. 'Nuff said...Originally Posted by GmanVP9
I hear you. You should something long enough to really learn the nuances of the trigger and rest. It is pretty hard to swap to something else.
I still carry a P30 LEM. Had short stints with a P2K, USP9C, as well as going back to a G17, 19, and 48. I keep coming back to the P30. Much of it is due to the people management angle and considerations around shooting at what "assessment speed" means for me.
For those that say they're having "accuracy" problems with LEM, can you describe that? Slow fire accuracy? Or difficulty maintaining groups at speed?
Whether LEM will be worth it to you is a matter of ergonomics + effort required. Anyone can become proficient with it. For some, the effort is great enough you might need to consider the ROI versus a platform that's easier for you. For others with the right genetic mutation, LEM might not be a big deal at all to learn and maintain performance with. As a member of the later group, I am totally cool with people calling us mutants.
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I continue to like, and use my P30L V1.5 LEM; it's an excellent duty and nightstand gun. Ergonomics and accuracy are superb. While I certainly shoot my VP40 faster, in a gun-to-gun comparison, the P30L LEM is a better duty gun because of the LEM for the reasons that Dagga Boy elaborated on.
In my expereince, it's also easy to carry concealed.
Best, Jon
I've got a P30 V3 (DA/SA) that I converted to LEM V4.1CH/TLG* ** and a P30L that I kept at V3. I have no real issues with the LEM gun though I'm not nearly at the same level as a lot of people here; If I get a draw from concealment and 2 rounds into a 3x5 card at 30 feet in under 2 seconds, I am super happy...and that won't be a normal thing. I'm more a 2.5 or so second on that with any consistency. This is just so there's a metric out there. (and if I'm honest, bringing it in a little bit to 7 yards doesn't change the time all that much)
I like the LEM gun but for dry-fire practice...it's honestly not great, there's not a whole lot of feedback for lack of a better term? On the other hand, dryfire practice with the straight DA/SA gun gives me a lot more response as far as when I'm working things correctly (or incorrectly).
Edit - I got so sidetracked with the footnotes that I forgot to put the rest in
I find myself using and appreciating the P30L-DA/SA gun a lot more than the LEM gun. I have them otherwise configured identically save the sights (the P30 has a set of Heinies and the P30L has the factory luminescent sights still), so if you were to blindfold me and put one in my hands I couldn't tell you which was which until I thumbed for a decocker. But, for whatever reason, the DA/SA gun just works better, for me, at my personal stage of practice and development.
* - The 4.1LEM basically shortens the trigger stroke/pretravel a little bit by basically pushing the trigger back a bit via a longer hammer catch which effectively pushes the hammer back a little more when it's at rest, and the TLG setup puts a heavy trigger return spring but lighter firing pin block and hammer springs in compared to the traditional V1 or V2 variants. The trigger has much more of a rolling break when pulling through it with this spring setup as well as a very strong reset; you're not going to outrun the trigger on reset with this
** - yes you can convert a V3-DA/SA gun to LEM...it's not supported by HK USA, and if you use the LEM sear there will be a slight gap in the rear of the frame where the decocker normally rides. You can use the V3 sear/decocker if you want and that will convert it to the european-offering-only V0 trigger setup...but why would you want to decock a LEM gun? Those silly europeans and their funny decocking strategies...
I don't think a P30SK is actually a sub compact even though HK markets it as such. Hard for me to get my head around that one.
In the P-F basket of deplorables.
I have an HK45 that I like a lot but it's not a carry. I use it as a nightstand pistol with an Olight. After reading some of the round counts during testing I had to have one. That would have been a good replacement for the M9 but not cheap. I can live with the trigger.
In the P-F basket of deplorables.
I carry my P2000 LEM more than my P30 LEM due to it being a little more compact. But I only shoot it out to 50 yards, never tried any further.
I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned. - Richard Feynman
When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a communist.- Archbishop Helder Câmara
What appeals to me regarding the HK LEM set up is the hammer and layer of safety. With the SCD being unobtainium right now, I am holding off on carrying vetted new Glocks until I can get them set up with SCD’s. I know the debate re: striker fired guns and AIWB has been beat to death - but it is why I carry my PX4cc more than my 19’s. I just realized so much of the discussion above was based around performance whereas I think the factors of reliability / robustness of design and layers of safety needs to be factored. I have not “gone back” like the op because I am on the hunt for a smaller HK than the P30 (or P30sk) … hoping p2000sk will work.
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