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Thread: Tales of the Stakeout Squad

  1. #51
    King Prawn Guerrero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blues View Post
    It discusses it, but not at great length. More in general terms. Was there something specific you were seeking?
    Just the social situation that created the team. The blog post of Mas's that I linked to above mentioned it a bit (rise in crime, budget cuts in the NYPD, police firearms instructors that "weren't doing anything else"). I always like seeing the "bigger picture."

    For example, both the books "Blackhawk Down" and "13 Hours" did good jobs of establishing the bigger pictures around those two events.
    Oversimplification is a very efficient way to make yourself stupid.

  2. #52
    Site Supporter Rex G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guerrero View Post
    As a general question, does the book address the situation/conditions which caused the NYPD to create the Stakeout Squad?
    @Mas Ayoob has written about this subject, as long ago as the Eighties, if not the Seventies.\. Hopefully he will see the @Mas signal, and respond. IIRC, the armed robbers were killing too many folks, causing enough of an outcry that the city leaders felt compelled to do something.

    Edited to add: I typed the above, before seeing Guerrero’s post.
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  3. #53
    one foot in the gulag... blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guerrero View Post
    Just the social situation that created the team. The blog post of Mas's that I linked to above mentioned it a bit (rise in crime, budget cuts in the NYPD, police firearms instructors that "weren't doing anything else"). I always like seeing the "bigger picture."

    For example, both the books "Blackhawk Down" and "13 Hours" did good jobs of establishing the bigger pictures around those two events.
    This book is nothing like that. It's a more colloquial discussion of reminiscences and events...is focused on the perspective of Cirillo, Allard and a small group of other officers who participated in the squad and ESU.

    It'll give perspective, but not great depth in that regard. Still, it touches on many of the events of the day...as I remember them growing up back then. When the squad was formed I was about 15 or 16, and my uncle was an anti-crime cop in Brooklyn. My wife and I each lived in a couple of the precincts mentioned in the book and I'm familiar with several locales.
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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by blues View Post
    This book is nothing like that. It's a more colloquial discussion of reminiscences and events...is focused on the perspective of Cirillo, Allard and a small group of other officers who participated in the squad and ESU.

    It'll give perspective, but not great depth in that regard. Still, it touches on many of the events of the day...as I remember them growing up back then. When the squad was formed I was about 15 or 16, and my uncle was an anti-crime cop in Brooklyn. My wife and I each lived in a couple of the precincts mentioned in the book and I'm familiar with several locales.
    In addition to the social factors already mentioned, Cash was more common and only banks had security cameras making armed robbery more lucrative and more likely to be successful.

    While checks existed, there were no ATMs so people carried and used more cash than today.

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Guerrero View Post
    (rise in crime, budget cuts in the NYPD, police firearms instructors that "weren't doing anything else")
    Interesting that history is repeating itself. But I doubt that todays NYC uh, "leadership" will form anything even remotely resembling the SOU. I could see teams of social workers, hiding in plain sight, that spring into counseling sessions during an armed robbery, trying to help the perpetrator to get in touch with there inner child and lead them into blaming their absent father for the life they chose and all the people they hurt. Upon the successful conclusion of the session, the social worker will present them with a certificate of reformation and send them along their way, record fully expunged.

    But I could be wrong....

  6. #56
    one foot in the gulag... blues's Avatar
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    The stakeout squads as discussed in this book, as well as the book about the Dallas shotgun squad which Lee mentioned above, are interesting as a glimpse back to how things were done for a period of time.

    What stands out for me, from reading and personal experience is:

    Many of the officers were poorly trained and made many, (some serious), errors both tactically as well as planning-wise.

    That it is very difficult, even with a partner, to maintain vigilance over the length of the shift. Shorter being better, but correspondingly less opportunity for a successful encounter with the "hi-jackers".

    Boredom and sloppiness are real dangers to the officers and civilians in these situations.

    Having the drop is no guarantee of success. And more importantly, no round, whether from a handgun, shotgun or rifle is necessarily going to stop a perp before he gets his licks in. Don't presume ballistic success if hits are made.



    I can relate to the faux pas made and reported upon in the book by Cirillo and other officers.

    One of them I was reminded of while reading the book occurred early in my career when I thought my badge made me somehow invincible, and was sitting in a utility closet under a stairwell in a private home awaiting a drug trafficker who was coming to pick up a load of cocaine we had seized earlier in the day from one of his confederates.

    I had a couple of agents upstairs who were supposed to alert me to the perp's movement and actions upon arrival, but having no peephole or window, I was operating blind, and as Mr. Murphy would have it, they failed to provide me the information I needed.

    When the bad guy arrived and eventually his steps led him to my location...I had my 870 trained on the door and was holding my breath awaiting an opportune moment to leave the cramped broom closet, jump out and effect the arrest.

    Imagine both his and my surprise when he flung the door open and saw me with a shotgun leveled at him. Fortunately for both of us, he gave up without a struggle or shots being fired...but it is easy enough to imagine all the things which could have gone wrong that day. Most of them tactical errors made by myself and my partners in hastily setting up the sting.

    I never made that mistake again, and learned firsthand, (at a discount price), the lesson that "tombstone courage" is a real thing to be avoided at all cost.

    I think most of us LEOs can think of situations where "there, but for the grace of God, go I". Even us agnostics.
    Last edited by blues; 09-20-2021 at 04:58 PM.
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  7. #57
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  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave T View Post
    My wife and I closed our Amazon Prime account last year when we learned they donated something like $2M to the very anti police Black Lives Matter. We miss the convenience but we're not supporting a corporation that doesn't give a shit about Law Enforcement.

    Dave
    I didn't know this and will have to reconsider. Most annoying to me is they list things as 'Prime' but are not going to be there 2 days later. They apparently let 3rd party sellers list it as Prime if they give free shipping to Prime members. I have complained but nobody seems to care. That said, anything that is listed as prime is always easy to return for free, so that's good.
    Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

  9. #59
    one foot in the gulag... blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DC_P View Post
    I didn't know this and will have to reconsider. Most annoying to me is they list things as 'Prime' but are not going to be there 2 days later. They apparently let 3rd party sellers list it as Prime if they give free shipping to Prime members. I have complained but nobody seems to care. That said, anything that is listed as prime is always easy to return for free, so that's good.
    Always check the column on the right side where it states "sold" and "shipped by".

    Unless I know it's amazon or a vendor that I'm willing to use, I won't order...when purchasing items where I may be concerned about buying counterfeit or lesser goods.
    There's nothing civil about this war

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by blues View Post
    Always check the column on the right side where it states "sold" and "shipped by".

    Unless I know it's amazon or a vendor that I'm willing to use, I won't order...when purchasing items where I may be concerned about buying counterfeit or lesser goods.
    Yea, we have learned to check that. Same with Walmart or any other large online retailer these days. 3rd party sellers can be very hit or miss.
    Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

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