Why doesn't Walther get more love?

[TGS]

@Hot Sauce

Tagging onto market research, I think one of their biggest failings is not having a compatible family of guns (sub compact, compact, full-size, XL) like Glock, S&W, H&K, SIG et al have. People like being able to share holsters and mags. Walther's "family" has always been quite limited; you could get a P99 and P99C, but not a full-size P99. You can get a large combination of compact and fullsizes with the PPQ and PDP, but no subcompact.

It's an obvious failure in their lineup...they're needlessly shooting themselves in the foot when they're already disadvantaged to begin with given Glock's market share. The only thing I can imagine is poor market research, I can't think of any technical reason that would keep them from producing a full lineup of PPQ/PDP pistols.

I think that's a failing Glock has with their 43 series that limits their success....albeit a smaller degree since they were a late market entry and the P365 came out so quickly after the 43, which sort of changed the game. All the same though, I remember quite a bit of sourness about the 43 and 43X/48 not have mag compatibility, and I'm positive that impacted sales in a negative way even though I can't quantify it.

[Hot Sauce]

Yes, you are right. According to TR, the PPQ trigger is too light, it can not be a police pistol in Germany.

Details:

• TR = "Technische Richtlinie" = Technical guideline. It's a specification that a pistol must fulfill in order to be allowed as police pistol in Germany.
• Current version: TR-Pistolen_9mmx19_Stand_24-06-2021.pdf
• From page 9:
  
  It means, the first shot must have a trigger pull force of at least 30 N.

But there is a similar model called P99Q:

• It fulfills the TR and is the police pistol of several German federal states.
• It has a constant trigger pull of 32 N.

Wow. HK's dominance is intense, even more so when it comes to bigger police department that number in the tens of thousands. The only one of that sort that uses Walthers is North Rhine-Westphalia, and even then, that's a P99 DAO.

Very useful info, thank you.

@Hot Sauce

Tagging onto market research, I think one of their biggest failings is not having a compatible family of guns (sub compact, compact, full-size, XL) like Glock, S&W, H&K, SIG et al have. People like being able to share holsters and mags. Walther's "family" has always been quite limited; you could get a P99 and P99C, but not a full-size P99. You can get a large combination of compact and fullsizes with the PPQ and PDP, but no subcompact.

It's an obvious failure in their lineup...they're needlessly shooting themselves in the foot when they're already disadvantaged to begin with given Glock's market share. The only thing I can imagine is poor market research, I can't think of any technical reason that would keep them from producing a full lineup of PPQ/PDP pistols.

I think that's a failing Glock has with their 43 series that limits their success....albeit a smaller degree since they were a late market entry and the P365 came out so quickly after the 43, which sort of changed the game. All the same though, I remember quite a bit of sourness about the 43 and 43X/48 not have mag compatibility, and I'm positive that impacted sales in a negative way even though I can't quantify it.

RE: To add onto the use of a family of guns point, there are some technical issues with using larger Walther mags in smaller guns due to there being no overinsertion stop. So I understand that, and don't begrudge them for not coming up with a technical solution, not like Walther is a company that does engineering or anything.

But let's not forget the PPQ M1 to M2 mag fiasco. They just didn't think this would piss anyone off, which shows that they understand little about who they're trying to sell to.



They could have simplified logistics not just for customers, but for themselves, by cutting both types of holes and making them cross-compatible. This was not a technical problem, it was lack of awareness.

There's a major disconnect between customers, market research team (is there one?), design team, and marketing team (there is a marketing team, right?).

[HCM]

Yes, you are right. According to TR, the PPQ trigger is too light, it can not be a police pistol in Germany.

Details:

• TR = "Technische Richtlinie" = Technical guideline. It's a specification that a pistol must fulfill in order to be allowed as police pistol in Germany.
• Current version: TR-Pistolen_9mmx19_Stand_24-06-2021.pdf
• From page 9:
  
  It means, the first shot must have a trigger pull force of at least 30 N.

But there is a similar model called P99Q:

• It fulfills the TR and is the police pistol of several German federal states.
• It has a constant trigger pull of 32 N.

PS:
I know that GSG 9 uses the Glock 17. It has a lighter trigger pull than 30 N. So TR apparently does not apply to GSG 9. GSG 9 are the special forces of the German Federal Police (Bundespolizei). It's Germany's strongest police force, founded to fight terrorism.

Doesn't Walther also have some other large EU police contracts for the P99Q or QA in Poland and Portugal ?

[HCM]

@Hot Sauce

Tagging onto market research, I think one of their biggest failings is not having a compatible family of guns (sub compact, compact, full-size, XL) like Glock, S&W, H&K, SIG et al have. People like being able to share holsters and mags. Walther's "family" has always been quite limited; you could get a P99 and P99C, but not a full-size P99. You can get a large combination of compact and fullsizes with the PPQ and PDP, but no subcompact.

It's an obvious failure in their lineup...they're needlessly shooting themselves in the foot when they're already disadvantaged to begin with given Glock's market share. The only thing I can imagine is poor market research, I can't think of any technical reason that would keep them from producing a full lineup of PPQ/PDP pistols.

Yup. Agencies now want a "system" which includes multiple compatible sizes and training pistols such as red handle dummy guns and blue handle simmunitions guns.

[P30]

Doesn't Walther also have some other large EU police contracts for the P99Q or QA in Poland and Portugal ?

Poland: positive. Portugal: They use a Walther but I don't know the model.

Also the police of the Netherlands uses the P99Q (45,000 pistols).

Source:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walther_P99#Users

[HCM]

Poland: positive. Portugal: They use a Walther but I don't know the model.

Also the police of the Netherlands uses the P99Q (45,000 pistols).

Source:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walther_P99#Users

Was the P99Q what replaced their ill fated adoption of the SIG P250 ?

As I recall they had Walther P5 or P5C’s prior to the P250 disaster.

[JDrive]

PDP 18rd mags list at $49 and are basically unavailable. They are already on Gen2 mags due to feed issues with the originals.

How do I know which Gen I have? Just bought 4 @ 49.00 each


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Trooper224]

Attachment 76668

Check and mate, mate.

[Joe in PNG]

"Oh, yeah... Walther" is what comes to mind the few times they come to mind.
And then they're pretty much forgotten.

I don't think there's much space in the already crowded SFA plastic people popper market, to tell the sad truth.

[Trooper224]

Maybe it's time for Natalie Portman to reboot The Professional. One could see her as "Leon" with a suppressed Radom/Walther P99 tutoring some young sprout in the way of being quietly scary.
Maybe get a retired GIGN, GSG 9, or Carabinieri operator to teach competent gun handling.


@GmanVP9 there are a number of folks here who do use Walther pistols for both competition and concealed carry. The P99 gets lots of respect from those who like the system.
There are some useful past threads here about the P99, PPQ, and a nice ongoing one about the PDP.

I personally like P99s and PPQs, they tend to work well for me.

(Admittedly I'm a weirdo, but do not wear my pants belted waaaay high above my waist, Glenn.)

I'd buy a ticket to watch Natalie Portman boil water, so I'd be all for it.

I carried a five inch PPQ for a while and really enjoyed it, except for the grip. The supposedly ergonomic grip just didn't work for me. It always felt as if it was going to squirt out of my hand at any minute, no matter what I tried. Shot well though.