Mike Foley Ousted at USPSA

[JCN]

Arguments for 15rds in Production and CO:

1. Make rules closer to IPSC
2. 140mm extension and springs make guns less reliable
3. Most factory guns have standard capacity over 15rds
4. Stages do not have to be 30rds all the time to be interesting and testing your shooting skills – again look at IPSC

Here are some more good arguments for Prod-15:
https://berryshooting.com/blog/the-c...nd-production/


I no longer shoot Production. The main reason is not the reloads, it is the lack of participation and competition. Even though I have not shot Production since 2018 I still practice my reloads religiously. My personal record on 4As is 1.79sec with reload around 0.7. Obviously, I can’t do it on demand, it was just fun game to chase at some point. If Production becomes the most competitive and popular division again, like it was in 2015-2016, I will happily shoot it again regardless of the capacity.

I think if you make Production and CO same capacity, you might just make CO less popular and may not help Production at all.

1. I don't care about IPSC personally.
2. Wimpy gamer ammo makes guns less reliable too without changing recoil springs.
3. Many full size factory guns have capacity in the 17 range, so downloading factory mags could be seen as silly and less desirable.
4. Doesn't change that Open and PCC have 38-40 round capacity.

IMO as a Carry Optics guy, I think you're looking at it the wrong way. I don't care about Production or SS. I want to have less gap to Open and PCC, so as much capacity as I can get to get closer to them, that's what I want.

People have overall bragging rights enjoyment even though it's not a competition across divisions. I want a gun I can buy off the shelf ammo that runs reliably with a dot that I can have large capacity similar to Open and PCC.

CO15 won't do anything but hurt CO.

[Cheap Shot]

Sorry to see Foley go.

Before Foley we had weak and incompetent leadership in USPSA. Wish him well and we'll see what happens next.

“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”
― Theodore Roosevelt

[CleverNickname]

Arguments for 15rds in Production and CO:

1. Make rules closer to IPSC
2. 140mm extension and springs make guns less reliable
3. Most factory guns have standard capacity over 15rds
4. Stages do not have to be 30rds all the time to be interesting and testing your shooting skills – again look at IPSC

I don't particularly care too much what Production is set to since I don't shoot Production, but I don't want CO set to 15 rounds.

1. The number of people who care about IPSC rules in the US is vanishingly small.
2. No one forces anybody to run magazine extensions. If someone's gun doesn't work with extensions, then maybe they should get extensions that aren't terrible, or just run factory mags with no extensions. The cost of buying extensions is minimal compared to overall costs, as long as you're shooting more than a couple matches, so I don't see that as preventing anyone from competing. Newbies (i.e. people without extensions) aren't going to be winning matches anyways.

I do dislike mag capacity limits in general though because then when I'm an RO I have to count the number of rounds shot. More than 10 and I run out of fingers!

[Lon]

I don’t worry too much about how he changed the equipment rules. I build whatever gun I want and shoot whatever division it will work in. Before CO was a thing I shot what was basically a CO gun in open class because the gun was my work or carry gun. And before that I ran a limited minor pistol because it was my duty pistol and Production wasn’t a thing yet. I’m gonna run my comped G26 in open Labor Day weekend when I go shoot a match.

Mike seemed like a decent guy the few times I talked with him at major matches, but he did some dumb shit and has to suffer the consequences. I hope he lands on his feet and learns from this. I’ve seen a lot of dumb shit in USPSA in the 28 years I’ve been a member, this is just the most recent episode. I try not to get too worked up about stuff anymore.

[YVK]

Not directed at anyone else but, if 15 rounds CO were to be a turnoff and people want highest cap, why stop at 140 mm? Why not 170? Why not 33 round Glock sticks?

If anything, this thread shows how hard it is for any leadership to please everyone, seeing that a lot of dudes enthusiastic about the game disagree on preferences.

[Cheap Shot]

Not directed at anyone else but, if 15 rounds CO were to be a turnoff and people want highest cap, why stop at 140 mm? Why not 170? Why not 33 round Glock sticks?

If anything, this thread shows how hard it is for any leadership to please everyone, seeing that a lot of dudes enthusiastic about the game disagree on preferences.

The Micro-compliant:Nothing to small to whine about:

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/15/f...bout.html?_r=0

[Zincwarrior]

I sign up for USPSA Tuesday. They fire the President Thursday.

Man - I didn’t know I’d break it this bad guys.

It's all your fault!

[JCN]

Not directed at anyone else but, if 15 rounds CO were to be a turnoff and people want highest cap, why stop at 140 mm? Why not 170? Why not 33 round Glock sticks?

If anything, this thread shows how hard it is for any leadership to please everyone, seeing that a lot of dudes enthusiastic about the game disagree on preferences.

140mm is the Limited mag length, so it makes for a decent length benchmark.

I wouldn’t mind if multiple divisions including PCC were limited to 140mm.

They should have a presidential debate with a moderator who asks them their stance of CO15/production15.

[Snapshot]

I have never met Mr. Foley but recall he had some issues previously with his choice of words. At that level they matter, even if there was history / provocation / whatever. I am sure there are other people who can do a good job for USPSA.

Here in Canada we mostly shoot IPSC and all (civilian) handgun magazines are maximum 10 rounds. So we do a lot of reloads, especially on "revolver-friendly" stages with multiple positions each with three targets. Pre-pandemic there were a lot of great USPSA matches on the U.S. side of the border, I shot L10 or Production, people shooting Open and Limited sometimes had arrangements with buddies to use suitable magazines in USPSA matches. Hopefully those days will return soon, for now the border is still mostly closed because "they" don't seem to believe USPSA matches are essential.

[Cheap Shot]

I have never met Mr. Foley but recall he had some issues previously with his choice of words. At that level they matter, even if there was history / provocation / whatever. I am sure there are other people who can do a good job for USPSA.

Here in Canada we mostly shoot IPSC and all (civilian) handgun magazines are maximum 10 rounds. So we do a lot of reloads, especially on "revolver-friendly" stages with multiple positions each with three targets. Pre-pandemic there were a lot of great USPSA matches on the U.S. side of the border, I shot L10 or Production, people shooting Open and Limited sometimes had arrangements with buddies to use suitable magazines in USPSA matches. Hopefully those days will return soon, for now the border is still mostly closed because "they" don't seem to believe USPSA matches are essential.

Source?