Mike Foley Ousted at USPSA

[CleverNickname]

The simple answer is that Limited was already a 140mm mag length limit, so in 2017 when they upped CO from the 10-round limit that it started out as, the easiest thing to do was to adopt Limited's mag length. Now that LO is a thing, I really doubt the division will go away, so I think the best thing would be to keep LO at 140mm, raise Prod to 15 rounds, and lower CO to 15 rounds to help return it to the Production-with-an-optic division that it was originally meant to be.

Carrying mags with extensions isn't uncommon though. I carry a factory Glock 24-round magazine as a reload fairly often, and it's ~155mm.

[JCN]

I realize I’m late to this party, but I’m new to USPSA and trying to get up to speed. My background is more tactical/practical type shooting, and I’ve shot IDPA and similar outlaw matches over the years. I’m entering USPSA with my eyes wide open and trying not to join and then start complaining. This thread brought up an issue I’ve been trying to avoid…. I shoot an LTT92 in CO and was surprised to see that literally every competitor has extended mags. Leaving the non-functional follower issue aside, the extendo mags do beg the question…. It’s called carryoptics but doesn’t really seem to have any pretense of actual carry, to say nothing of the offset holsters mag pouches. Why not just let us use Open-sized mags? What’s the difference? My personal preference would be a 15 or 17 round mag limit for CO. Not because I love reloading—I don’t, and I’m in no risk of winning any matches—but at least there would seem to be some internal logic in play. Putting the carry back in CO.

My advice: Don't try and logic the game. Enjoy it for what it is.

Get really good at shooting fast AND accurate and I guarantee it'll help your tactical and practical execution.

Thinking about division names is just a distraction.

From a gaming standpoint: I like 140mm mags because I like weighted basepads that can be easily seated and easily stripped and dropped.

Get some extended basepads and embrace the game. With max stage round count of 32 if you don't miss or make up... 15-17 round mags will give you an extra reload requirement per long stage.

When in Rome....

(also like @CleverNickname when I carry a reload in real life it's an extended magazine because 40 cal capacity).

[Mike Pipes]

What JNC said in his first line!!!!!!!!!

[Jim Watson]

One gunfighting coach said of IPSC, you are not training to attack multiple determined opponents, consider each target array as a separate engagement, just combined to save time.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Great line, Jim! In any case, just move to a ban state and your 10 round mags will solve all those conundrums. Coming to your state soon. As I've indicated, given my abilities, I just want to get practice putting accurate rounds on each target in a reasonable time for that target as it is engaged. I shoot realistic carry guns with carry gear - but that's just me. The match is just practice and gun with the folk. So one guy is so used to his big ol' mag well that in our carry gun matches with a small semi, he consistently throws his reload into space as he 'missed' the funnel effect.

[ECK]

Last winter USPSA put out a member survey to see how the membership felt about proposals to modify the magazine capacity for Production division. The options included:

1. Leave it alone at 10 rnds
2. Increase the capacity to 15 rnds
3. Allow whatever capacity the factory magazine holds (15, 17, 18, 19…)
4. Allow competitors to add an extended basepad to increase OEM capacity but pistol with mag inserted must still fit in the USPSA Prod/SS box

Per the bylaws, equipment changes to existing divisions can only take place once a year in January, and only after a member comment period. Since Production is an existing division, they have to follow the bylaws and the soonest any change to magazine capacity can take place would be January 2024. But first they would have to come up with a solid proposal, have the BOD agree, then put it out for a member comment period of 60 days (I think).

Carrying this forward, I suspect if the mag capacity in Production does come to pass there may be a subsequent movement to rollback Carry Optics from the 141.25mm magazine that is currently allowed to something shorter, such as #2, 3, or 4 above. IMO, by reducing the capacity of CO to something less than 23+1, we are creating more distinction between CO and Limited Optics. If you’re married to your 23+1 rnd magazines, stay in Limited Optics. If you want to keep shooting CO, dump the +5/6 mag extensions and run whatever is deemed the new magazine limit for CO.

Another thing that makes sense if they re-brand CO is to lower the weight limit back to 45 oz (what it was in 2019-ish) and leave the heavy guns to LO.

I know my Area Director is concerned with the lack of differentiation between CO and the new LO division, but I also suspect the BOD will want to wait at least a year, if not two, before making any major decisions about the future of LO and how it affects CO. But my $.02 is I’d be OK with a rollback of CO to something more similar to IPSC’s Production Optics (reduced mag capacity and weight than what we have now).

[Jim Watson]

I have had all sorts of ideas how to rearrange the Divisions but have concluded that it doesn't matter. I am not in the "only compete against myself" fraternity, I do look at my standing relative to all other pistols, disregarding those shooting rifles at 5 yards. It is pretty low due to limits of age and only a moderate skill base, but I enjoy the challenge.

In any case, just move to a ban state and your 10 round mags will solve all those conundrums.

Since I am shooting mostly L10 and ESP, I am already solving problems with 10 round magazines.
Or six, I shot a revolver last week to keep another rare six gunner company.

[Sal Picante]

I am not in the "only compete against myself" fraternity, I do look at my standing relative to all other pistols, disregarding those shooting rifles at 5 yards. It is pretty low due to limits of age and only a moderate skill base, but I enjoy the challenge.

This is the way. Also, I see what you said there about Pistol Caliber Cheater division.

[Jim Watson]

Somebody found a quote from one of the early SWPCL shooters when they renamed it IPSC.
"We didn't call it the Pistol Shooting Confederation because we though somebody might want to shoot something else someday."

But I don't have to like it, it disturbs my Wa.

[JCN]

This is the way. Also, I see what you said there about Pistol Caliber Cheater division.

Somebody found a quote from one of the early SWPCL shooters when they renamed it IPSC.
"We didn't call it the Pistol Shooting Confederation because we though somebody might want to shoot something else someday."

But I don't have to like it, it disturbs my Wa.

PCC is super dumb in USPSA and super duper uper dumb in IDPA.

But it remains the best dynamic long gun training standard out there.