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Thread: Mike Foley Ousted at USPSA

  1. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by DMF13 View Post
    Thank you, but I'm wondering how you found it.

    I searched for both terms, on the USPSA.org website, that I listed previously, which are logical search terms when looking for the information described in the email. That linked document was nowhere to be found.

    Whether it was intended this way or not, making it hard to find that information gives the impression the Board is trying to "bury" that document, and hide from the truth.
    It was publicly posted by the USPSA on their Facebook account, which I would think means they are actually being as transparent about this matter as you seem to want them to be.

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCS View Post
    Are you a member?
    Yes, and I referenced getting the email in my first post.

    USPSA sent me an email with a link to the minutes which contained the findings of the investigation. They donít seem to be hiding anything.
    Yesterday, and today, I followed the link, and all it turned up was the agenda for the meeting, not the minutes. Again, a search of the USPSA site, even after logging in as a member, did not show the minutes, despite what was said in the email.

    Looking at all "Announcements" also does not show the documents in the link Archer provided.

    If they aren't trying to bury it, why does the email only take you somewhere that will NOT provided the meeting minutes? Why won't the site allow you to find them with a keyword search?

    Again, the "Agenda" for the meeting is NOT the minutes for the meeting.
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  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archer1440 View Post
    It was publicly posted by the USPSA on their Facebook account, which I would think means they are actually being as transparent about this matter as you seem to want them to be.
    Then they should have either provided the proper link in the email, or linked to the post on Facebook. Some people, myself included, don't use Facebook, and again, whether intentional or not, giving links that don't actually don't lead to the information, and a simple keyword search on the site also doesn't provide the information gives the impression they are trying to bury the info.
    _______________
    "Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" Then I said, "Here I am. Send me." - Isaiah 6:8

  4. #74
    You are, by all means, entitled to your reaction. However, having worked with quite a few IT and webmaster types over the years, I tend to attribute that sort of thing to incompetence in the communications chain rather than something sinister.

    People do, often, make mistakes, after all, especially with web-based stuff.

    Also, and no insult intended, the truth is that any modern third grader could have found those documents via Google inside 20 seconds, to be fair about it.

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archer1440 View Post
    Also, and no insult intended, the truth is that any modern third grader could have found those documents via Google inside 20 seconds, to be fair about it.
    The point is, if you're not trying to bury the information, don't make people, especially the people who are part of the organization, have to dig around to find it. Why should someone have to try to find it via an external search engine, when neither the provided link, or the organizations own site search engine, will turn up the information.
    _______________
    "Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" Then I said, "Here I am. Send me." - Isaiah 6:8

  6. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by DMF13 View Post
    Clearly the USPSA Board doesn't care about informing the membership of what goes on at the meetings, so I doubt they will even give us meeting minutes, let alone any real information about what transpired.
    Quote Originally Posted by DMF13 View Post
    The point is, if you're not trying to bury the information, don't make people, especially the people who are part of the organization, have to dig around to find it. Why should someone have to try to find it via an external search engine, when neither the provided link, or the organizations own site search engine, will turn up the information.
    Buddy, just take the L on this one and move on. Clearly you were wrong. Clearly the board does care about informing the membership.

    You might not be on Facebook, and good for you. But you don't even need a Facebook account to see the post USPSA made about ousting Foley. Posting on Facebook is pretty much the opposite of trying to bury the information.

  7. #77
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    As for all the rule stuff, I'm just a guy who can't seem to find my way out of C class, with two hands and a flashlight, but as someone who is sort of new to the game (I've dabbled in it off and on for a few years, but only recently got serious about it), some of the rules are weird to me.

    I understand the appeal of having the higher mag capacity, but it seems to me Open is to Limited, what CO is to Production. Yes, I understand the mag length is 30mm longer in Open, and there are some other differences between Open and Limited, but Open to me appears to be the optics "race" division, and Limited is the irons "race" division. However, CO appears to be the optics "practical gun" division, and Production is the irons "practical gun" division.

    So, I find it odd, that there are little differences other than the optics. Why not have mag lengths be the same for Open and Limited, and the same length, or capacity, for CO and Production? Why not allow the Limited shooters to run compensators? Also, I find the whole Limited-10 Division to be extremely odd, considering the rules address what to do for all Divisions, in places that have mag capacity limits.

    Granted, I've only recently gotten real serious about figuring this game out, so maybe I'll develop a better understanding as time goes by, and I'm sure the evolution of the game resulted in the things I find odd, but from a relatively new guy perspective how the rules are laid out now, with regard to what divisions there are, and the differences between them it just doesn't make sense.

    Now, I am shooting Limited Minor because I don't have an optics gun, and I've got enough to worry about without making the stage plan more complicated with additional reloads. I will just live with Minor scoring. If I can ever dig myself out of C class, I will move to Production and start figuring out the slightly more complicated stage plans. If my agency ever approves optics, or when I retire, I'll probably go over to CO. If Production were 15 instead of 10, I'd probably just start there. Hell, last year before I bought 21 round mags for my Glock I was shooting Limited Minor with 15 round mags.

    In the past I haven't paid close enough attention to the game to pin the things I find odd on any person, or group, so I'm not blaming Foley for it. It just seems to me some of these things are overly complicated.
    Last edited by DMF13; 08-28-2021 at 12:11 AM.
    _______________
    "Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" Then I said, "Here I am. Send me." - Isaiah 6:8

  8. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by DMF13 View Post
    The point is, if you're not trying to bury the information, don't make people, especially the people who are part of the organization, have to dig around to find it. Why should someone have to try to find it via an external search engine, when neither the provided link, or the organizations own site search engine, will turn up the information.
    Click on the "Member Resources" dropdown and then click "BOD Minutes" in the left-hand column. All BOD minutes going back to 1984 are posted there, including the minutes from earlier this week.

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMF13 View Post
    So, I find it odd, that there are little differences other than the optics. Why not have mag lengths be the same for Open and Limited, and the same length, or capacity, for CO and Production? Why not allow the Limited shooters to run compensators? Also, I find the whole Limited-10 Division to be extremely odd, considering the rules address what to do for all Divisions, in places that have mag capacity limits.
    Divisions and rules are the way they are because of how the sport evolved over time for the most part. They look nothing like they would or should if you could do a hard reset and start from scratch building divisions today.

    As a very rough/rudimentary time line, leaving off PCC and revolver:

    -Sport starts with no divisions, major/minor scoring
    -Optics and comps become a thing and a new division has to be made (open) to separate it from irons (limited)
    -10 round AWB happens in 1994 and people want a division that is easier to compete in (limited 10)
    -Double stack 9mm's grow in popularity and people want a place to compete shooting 9mm minor with common guns with a perceived disadvantage to guns with single action triggers, plus you had IDPA taking shooters from USPSA in part because of the use of common defensive guns (production, still AWB though so 10 round limit)
    -People want to reminisce shooting 1911's which no longer have a place in the sport (single stack)
    -RDS become more mainstream with concealed carry/defensive pistol/LEO/military use but a slide mounted RDS can't compete with a frame mounted, plus people like 9mm and minor and production was the most popular division at the time (carry optics, 10 round limit)
    -At some point in the last 6 years, the DNROI, president, and board decide to make whole sale changes to divisions without making much sense, and went to the 140mm mag length limit for CO instead of the 10 round limit, gas pedals for production, aftermarket drop in triggers for production and CO, frame weights (flashlights), deleting weight limits, among other things.

    If I were king for a day and could start over today, the divisions would probably look something like:
    Optics Major (open) 140mm mag limit
    Optics Minor (CO) 140mm mag limit
    Irons Major 140mm mag limit
    Irons Minor 140mm mag limit
    LoCap - 10 round minor, 8 round major
    Revo
    PCC

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