NYPD going to lighter trigger?

[MichaelOrick]

There is an argument to be made that what ever UD risk associated with the standard 5.5lb triggers will be balanced by increased hit potential. Given the crowded environment of NYC an the fact that every bullet fired hits something increased hit potential is, itself a form of safety.

They are hoping that will be the case. Or they can dodge/hide it if it's not?

The NYPD training scores with new trigger improved 5% (88.7 to 93.7).

IIRC, NYPD does not report hit rate anymore, just report positive/negative outcome?

If NYPD's UD rate climbs more than 5%, closer to the fed's 38% from their usual 15-20%, some may not consider that a good trade?

I find these reported UD numbers for the feds and NYPD interesting, because both seem waaay higher than the city/county/state here (who use Glocks/M&Ps).

We will know in a year or two?

[HCM]

They are hoping that will be the case. Or they can dodge/hide it if it's not?

The NYPD training scores with new trigger improved 5% (88.7 to 93.7).

IIRC, NYPD does not report hit rate anymore, just report positive/negative outcome?

If NYPD's UD rate climbs more than 5%, closer to the fed's 38% from their usual 15-20%, some may not consider that a good trade?

I find these reported UD numbers for the feds and NYPD interesting, because both seem waaay higher than the city/county/state here (who use Glocks/M&Ps).

We will know in a year or two?

The "DOJ" number reported earlier in this thread are not UD's for Fed eral LE , they are numbers for all LE (Fed, State. Local) collected by DOJ.

What are you basing your city/county/state numbers on ? I ask because most LE UD's do not make the news, even those with injury. I'm personally aware of at least 7 Fed and local UD's with injury and 2 without injury in my city in the last few years and none made the media.

NYPD has been keeping comprehensive records of firearms incidents and compiling them in an annual report longer than most other agencies. That said individual incidents

[MichaelOrick]

The "DOJ" number reported earlier in this thread are not UD's for Fed eral LE , they are numbers for all LE (Fed, State. Local) collected by DOJ.

What are you basing your city/county/state numbers on ? I ask because most LE UD's do not make the news, even those with injury. I'm personally aware of at least 7 Fed and local UD's with injury and 2 without injury in my city in the last few years and none made the media.

NYPD has been keeping comprehensive records of firearms incidents and compiling them in an annual report longer than most other agencies. That said individual incidents

38% for DOJ, not all feds and not all LE.

[HCM]

ATF, USMS and DEA each have about 5k agents each, FBI has 13k agents. All four agencies have thousands of takforce officers from other state, local and other federal agencies. So total numbers wise that population is similar to NYPD’s

[MichaelOrick]

ATF, USMS and DEA each have about 5k agents each, FBI has 13k agents. All four agencies have thousands of takforce officers from other state, local and other federal agencies. So total numbers wise that population is similar to NYPD’s

Would be nice to get a more detailed breakdown of who DOJ included in those numbers, and how much they contributed to them.

I'm not sure what they mean by "animal control". Feds have shot animals, along with their own feet, thighs, and butts. Do animals shot on raids/warrants count as animal control?

When a USAF vehicle hit a wild horse on the range complex, contract guards working for the feds (not sure if they worked for DOD or DOE; gets convoluted) shot them, not USAF cops, even if the skycops were on scene. Not sure how that gets credited.

[HCM]

Would be nice to get a more detailed breakdown of who DOJ included in those numbers, and how much they contributed to them.

I'm not sure what they mean by "animal control". Feds have shot animals, along with their own feet, thighs, and butts. Do animals shot on raids/warrants count as animal control?

When a USAF vehicle hit a wild horse on the range complex, contract guards working for the feds (not sure if they worked for DOD or DOE; gets convoluted) shot them, not USAF cops, even if the skycops were on scene. Not sure how that gets credited.

Animal shootings whether during enforcement or after an auto accident would only be included in that count if the SA/DUSM/TFO was the shooter, not if merely present.


I think you will find UD rates for DOJ personnel are equal to or slightly less then most state and local agencies.

Comparisons with the military are not really valid. On the one hand, there are relatively few people in the military carrying fully loaded guns 24/7 on a regular basis and you have more long guns then pistols. On the other hand the military likes to make service members a lot of stupid things like unloading and reloading guns three times a day at meals…

[MichaelOrick]

Animal shootings whether during enforcement or after an auto accident would only be included in that count if the SA/DUSM/TFO was the shooter, not if merely present.


I think you will find UD rates for DOJ personnel are equal to or slightly less then most state and local agencies.

Comparisons with the military are not really valid. On the one hand, there are relatively few people in the military carrying fully loaded guns 24/7 on a regular basis and you have more long guns then pistols. On the other hand the military likes to make service members a lot of stupid things like unloading and reloading guns three times a day at meals…

We removed mags from long guns that were chamber empty for meals.

Pistols were left in the holster as they were (round chambered, mag inserted).

Sometimes we did the drive-through at McDonald's w an M60 mounted in the turret of a Peacekeeper or Humvee. Or cruise UofA with Do Wah Diddy Diddy playing on the PA...

Base hospitals could be interesting. Some wanted no guns in the bldg at all unless you were responding to an incident. You had to leave it with your partner or turn it in and draw it again at the armory if alone.

I would not be surprised if UDs were the majority or only shootings for SPs some years. I remember a guy who put a round of HE from his M203 grenade launcher through the roof of his truck. It landed on the roof of the armory and rolled into the gutter. Another who put a three-round burst into the wing of the tanker he was guarding. Some who shot each other playing quick draw on post...

When something that did not exist crashed somewhere it was not supposed to be, I loved getting out of my "black" helicopter (or truck), walking up to the local law and announcing, "there's a new sheriff in town". With a big smile and a wink.