NYPD going to lighter trigger?

[Joe Mac]

Another factor with the DA only sig trigger is that there is more movement than in a Glock trigger. So if someone does have their trigger on the trigger when they are not supposed to and starts moving it, there is more time to realize what they are doing and stop. I believe several experienced and knowledgeable people have pointed this out on this forum.

Gratuitous war story:
One day in 1994 we were trying to take a suspect into custody who had attempted to kill an FBI agent. We called him out of the shed he'd been hiding in, and he began walking toward us, appearing to comply. He suddenly plunged his hands into his pants, and from about 30 yards out I began to pull the trigger of my L-frame revolver -- slowly and smoothly, because I didn't want to miss. Before the hammer fell, it was no longer the bad guy in my sight picture, but my squad mate tackling him! (He was doing some stealthy hero shit, unbeknownst to the rest of us...) I was able to abort that shot because it was a long DA trigger.

There are many reasons I prefer a modern striker-fired pistol, but there are some circumstances when a DA trigger is an advantage.

[BehindBlueI's]

We went from the NY1 (8-lb) trigger to standard trigger when we went from Gen 2 to Gen 3 Glocks. No rise in UDs. I believe all of our UDs have been either intentionally pulling the trigger after improper clearing or equipment in the trigger guard of a holstered/being holstered handgun.

[deputyG23]

My perspective as a firearms instructor on a large PD for more than two decades: very few of our NDs involved finger on the trigger when it shouldn't be/pull weight/etc. Our folks were well trained and good at indexing. The great majority of the NDs were intentional trigger presses when "dry" firing (or so they thought), or when incompetency met the Glock takedown procedure (mostly quite early in the Glock years, in the 90s).

I had the misfortune of being in close personal proximity to four NDs over the years, and have a bit of hearing loss to show for it.

Our 375-ish member office has had about ten NDs since adopting Glocks in the late '80s.
Nearly all involved using faulty technique to clear the pistol before cleaning and/or storing.
One resulted in a career ending injury to the victim's leg.
Nearly all of our issued Glocks over the years have had a heavier trigger than the standard one.
Most were ordered with the eight pound connector and standard spring.
The last batches of Gen 4 G23s we ordered came with the standard connector and spring.
We still have around 200 Gen 3 models in service with eight pound triggers.
The G5 G17s we are switching to, hopefully next year, will have the standard trigger.

[Rex G]

I would make an educated guess that some number of NYPD’s numerous misses, with heavy-trigger Glocks, may well have been due to the heavy trigger. I do well enough with heavy triggers, but understand that many folks do not. (I installed an NY2 in one of my Gen3 G22 Glocks, experimentally, and it made no difference in my scored accuracy potential, during the duty qual course, but, my overall Glock accuracy was not so wonderful, anyway, compared to DA revolvers and 1911 pistols, which prompted my switch to SIG DAK, as soon as it became available, in 2004. My G22 groups were well-centered, but just too large*.)

I believe that some number of NYPD’s NDs, with Glocks, would not have occurred, with longer-stroke triggers. I will concede that I am not unbiased, as I am a belivier in long-stroke double-action triggers, whether the weapon is a DA/SA auto-pistol, a DAO auto-pistol, or a DA revolving pistol.

I do not favor SIG DAK. It is wonderful, for a few shots, but quickly becomes fatiguing and/or distracting. I loved DAK, as soon as I got to try it. Notably, my PD did not authorize DAO SIGs, but policy was silent on DAK, and many of the heavy-hittin’ narc raid team immediately embraced DAK. When I adopted DAK, as soon as I could find one at an LGS, I had to avoid being at the qual range when a particular evening shift sergeant was present, as he was on a personal campaign against DAK. Our qual range runs three shifts, so avoiding that sergeant was not too difficult. (The narcs did not have to worry about him, as Narcotics Division ran their own quals, with their own supervisors.) Eventually, firearms policy was amended to specifically allow both DA/SA and DAK.

If I were an NYPD officer, rather than a Houston PD officer, I believe that I would have embraced the S&W 5946, during its time, if not staying with the revolver. I base this upon my experience with a much-loved 3953, which only went away, because I wanted a dear friend to have a good pistol, and she shot it better than anything I saw her try, that was small enough for her to carry.

*Gen4 partially solved my group size problem, with Glocks. It was a matter of fit. Even so, I will probably never shoot any Glock as well as a GP100, or a K-/L-Frame S&W. Every shot fired with a Glock seems to help my revolver shooting, so Glocks cannot catch-up.

[Trooper224]

I'm glad the NYPDs finally seeing the light on their Glock triggers. Unfortunately, while that may be of some benefit, I doubt if it will have any dramatic effect on their hit/miss ratio. They have much bigger issues with training and the overall lack of any kind of gun culture within NYC itself. Changing the issue trigger is a pretty small slice of the pie.

[Rex G]

I do not favor SIG DAK. It is wonderful, for a few shots, but quickly becomes fatiguing and/or distracting. I loved DAK, as soon as I got to try it. Notably, my PD did not authorize DAO SIGs, but policy was silent on DAK, and many of the heavy-hittin’ narc raid team immediately embraced DAK.

Obviously, I contradicted myself, in the above quote. The first sentence of the above quote should have been “I do not favor SIG DAO.” The rest of it is correct, as I truly loved SIG DAK. I only got away from SIG DAK, because I wanted the lowest possible bore axis, when I switched to 9mm, shortly after my then-chief authorized 9mm as an alternative primary duty pistol cartridge, in 2015. My choice was the Gen4 Glock G17, for orthopedic purposes, to spare my aging right wrist further damage. Otherwise, I probably would have finished my career with SIG DAK. As it was, my P229R DAK was my longest-serving single duty pistol, at 11 years.

Notably, I let the DAK trigger reset all the way forward, for the longer-but-lighter trigger stroke, which mimicked a K-/L-Frame trigger stroke quite well. I had to let my revolvers reset all the way forward, so there was no point in training with the shorter DAK reset position, and plenty of wisdom in NOT doing so. The shorter reset remained a fail-safe, in case I failed to reset to the farther forward position.

Until I transitioned to the G17, I did most of my right-hand DAK/DA training with an S&W K-Frame Model 17-4, with .22 LR ammo. For the annual qual, I used a Surefire X200 or X300, on the rail, so its weight would damp some of the recoil.

I may yet convert my P229R DAK to 9mm, but complete uppers are quite costly, so it has not yet been worth the price.

[HCM]

Obviously, I contradicted myself, in the above quote. The first sentence of the above quote should have been “I do not favor SIG DAO.” The rest of it is correct, as I truly loved SIG DAK. I only got away from SIG DAK, because I wanted the lowest possible bore axis, when I switched to 9mm, shortly after my then-chief authorized 9mm as an alternative primary duty pistol cartridge, in 2015. My choice was the Gen4 Glock G17, for orthopedic purposes, to spare my aging right wrist further damage. Otherwise, I probably would have finished my career with SIG DAK. As it was, my P229R DAK was my longest-serving single duty pistol, at 11 years.

Notably, I let the DAK trigger reset all the way forward, for the longer-but-lighter trigger stroke, which mimicked a K-/L-Frame trigger stroke quite well. I had to let my revolvers reset all the way forward, so there was no point in training with the shorter DAK reset position, and plenty of wisdom in NOT doing so. The shorter reset remained a fail-safe, in case I failed to reset to the farther forward position.

Until I transitioned to the G17, I did most of my right-hand DAK/DA training with an S&W K-Frame Model 17-4, with .22 LR ammo. For the annual qual, I used a Surefire X200 or X300, on the rail, so its weight would damp some of the recoil.

I may yet convert my P229R DAK to 9mm, but complete uppers are quite costly, so it has not yet been worth the price.

I’ve had no issues running my .40 cal 229 with a barsto 9mm conversion barrel and 40 cal mags.

If it’s for serious use. SIG and RTG parts have 9mm 229 slides with factory mounted red dot optics for not much more than the standard 229 caliber conversions.

[deputyG23]

Obviously, I contradicted myself, in the above quote. The first sentence of the above quote should have been “I do not favor SIG DAO.” The rest of it is correct, as I truly loved SIG DAK. I only got away from SIG DAK, because I wanted the lowest possible bore axis, when I switched to 9mm, shortly after my then-chief authorized 9mm as an alternative primary duty pistol cartridge, in 2015. My choice was the Gen4 Glock G17, for orthopedic purposes, to spare my aging right wrist further damage. Otherwise, I probably would have finished my career with SIG DAK. As it was, my P229R DAK was my longest-serving single duty pistol, at 11 years.

Notably, I let the DAK trigger reset all the way forward, for the longer-but-lighter trigger stroke, which mimicked a K-/L-Frame trigger stroke quite well. I had to let my revolvers reset all the way forward, so there was no point in training with the shorter DAK reset position, and plenty of wisdom in NOT doing so. The shorter reset remained a fail-safe, in case I failed to reset to the farther forward position.

Until I transitioned to the G17, I did most of my right-hand DAK/DA training with an S&W K-Frame Model 17-4, with .22 LR ammo. For the annual qual, I used a Surefire X200 or X300, on the rail, so its weight would damp some of the recoil.

I may yet convert my P229R DAK to 9mm, but complete uppers are quite costly, so it has not yet been worth the price.

I have wanted to try a 229 DAK for years. Almost pulled the trigger on a $379 reconditioned one that CDNN had, pre-pandemic.
The local cop shop usually have a couple of trade ins in their case but now at $500-ish and they look pretty tired and have Hogue rubber grips, which I hate.
I am not a SIG armorer, so I have not bit yet.
I have a .357 P229 barrel, a Safariland holster, and a pair of magazines that came in my big estate sale buy of 2019.

[Rex G]

Notably, the only ND I heard, by a fellow officer, off the range, was a rookie who ND-ed into the lowest step, or a short stairway onto an elevated porch. I was on the porch, so it was a bit startling, but her muzzle direction, with her G22, was good, so I was good. Notably, because I had just pushed open an unlocked door, and announced our presence, a bit of body alarm reaction had already kicked-in, which preserved my hearing. The calm, matter-of-fact way that she ‘fessed-up to having “discharged my firearm,” and her finger being PROPERLY indexed, after that shot, plus her breathing being under control, led me to indicate that we should take care of business, rather than back-off, as it would be a considerable wait for other officers to arrive. I knew that this was probably her first experience making a dynamic entry, and that she had been performing well, up to this point in time; a “sharp” rookie.

As soon as practicable, I did, of course, get on the air, to let her partner know that we were OK. This was before we made entry.

Yes, I know, it would have been best practice to call a time-out, but this was a burglary-in-progress call, with the complainant having heard a noise, moving across her floor, after her alarm had tripped. I was checking-by with the only available unit in that district. I had to consider how long the complainant might be at the mercy of an intruder. The rookie’s partner was monitoring the front door and windows, and if I told them to switch places, the rookie would have been alone, out front. I reckoned that it would be better to keep the rookie with me.

Yes, I earned some “cool under fire” bonus points, which are, of course, totally unofficial, only existing in the minds of colleagues.

Yes, of course, some disciplinary occurred. My official letter did specifically mention her safe muzzle direction, and calmness and safe weapon handing after the shot was fired.

Yes, of course, I would rather that she had been using a weapon with a longer-stroke trigger.

Life is good.

Oh, the object that had been heard moving across the floor, was a cylindrical object that had tipped over, and then rolled across the floor. The unsecured back door had been coincidental

[HCM]

I have wanted to try a 229 DAK for years. Almost pulled the trigger on a $379 reconditioned one that CDNN had, pre-pandemic.
The local cop shop usually have a couple of trade ins in their case but now at $500-ish and they look pretty tired and have Hogue rubber grips, which I hate.
I am not a SIG armorer, so I have not bit yet.
I have a .357 P229 barrel, a Safariland holster, and a pair of magazines that came in my big estate sale buy of 2019.

To quote the late P-F member LSP972, "The DAK sucks all the fun out of shooting a SIG."