P320 2.0, but yeah.Originally Posted by Hot Sauce
P320 2.0, but yeah.
These pictures appear to be from the video in the linked article. In that video, at about 4:58, the section that these photos appear to originate from, she demonstrates inserting her finger between the holster and gun up to the joint closest to the finger tip. The finger appears to go behind the trigger itself and does not appear to be able to engage the trigger, but no knowledgeable person would call this adequate trigger area protection for a striker fired gun.
Pistol still in holster doesn't actually mean much in this instance.
Pistol could have had minimal retention in holster or not seated well. With motion of swinging around in a purse it probably dislodged enough that trigger was exposed to multiple potential impacts.
I spoke to this department yesterday. Several important points to consider: this is a 16 officer department.....they do not have a dedicated armorer. Likely not even a dedicated Firearms Instructor, though I didn't ask. Not gonna hammer anybody here....this is a small department and this has been repeated elsewhere, cops are not gun people. The high ranking person I spoke to repeated Sigs explanation of what happened (object in trigger guard/poor holster selection). They didn't really buy the explanation, since this is an.issued holster that they all use and feel comfortable with. I get it. I don't agree, and ban that holster on our range or for duty use, but I get it. Again...cops aren't gun people. Their decision is to return to Classic Line DA/SA Sigs.
The videos of the lawyer rants are tough to watch if for no other reason than the lawyers repeated insistence that these officers are "highly trained" and "experts" with years of experience. Shaking my head as I look up from the script for the training video we're doing reminding officers how to load/unload a semiautomatic pistol safely, so we don't have more holes in locker room walls and bathroom mirrors. Or God forbid other cops.
I'm kind of at the same place as the second "firearms expert" in the video. I dont at all trust an older original design 320 ( even the upgraded ones). I'm having a hard time seeing how the problems continue to occur with the current design. It seems to me that if it is indeed occurring, it is likely a manufacturing tolerances issue....which would explain why it isn't happening everywhere, all the time. That's still a lottery I don't want to play.
I reiterate my question to anyone reading this post: if anyone has an explanation for the mechanism of failure causing these discharges with current production 320s, I would seriously like to hear it. Especially if someone can explain how to reproduce the problem in testing.
And FYI, the gun in the Bridge City PD incident in the video was a 320 Pro....recent generation LE model.
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....t=p320+joninwa
Post #77 and 111 is my best guess.
We had one fire while inside a Bladetech OWB holster. Put a hole in the shooter's truck seat. His copy, on inspection, had crossed sear springs and a kinked spring in the striker assembly.
Solid shooter, former SF with combat experience. One of the safest shooters I've ever RM'd for.
I was able to get the striker to drop during testing. IIRC, it was a sharp twist of the grip/frame whilst trapping the slide. I suspect that he got in his car, reached back for the seat belt and during that process, the grip was trapped between his body and car seat.
Guy is such a safe shooter that we were on the range and I heard a muffled pop.........I turn around to look....and he is holding his left hand out the window... just as instructed while on the firing line. We checked him good for holes and at first, figured there was a clothing issue.
On armorer level inspection, I discovered the crossed sear springs and dicked up spring in the striker. Safety lever spring IIRC. I had to buy the parts from secondary vendors.
So.......I still own two P320s.....but my son and I don't carry them and choose the P365 instead. Make of that what you will.
Regards.
Last edited by lwt16; 08-26-2021 at 12:02 PM.
@lwt16.....thank you. This is the kind of info I'm looking for. Kind of feeds into idea that the systemic issue may be a manufacturing/assembly problem.
Can you share what model/vintage the gun was? And sourcing the parts....was that for replacement and repair after the incident?
If I recall correctly, that gun was not current production, rather an original model which had been through the "Upgrade." And apparently improperly upgraded at that.https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....t=p320+joninwa
Post #77 and 111 is my best guess.
We had one fire while inside a Bladetech OWB holster. Put a hole in the shooter's truck seat. His copy, on inspection, had crossed sear springs and a kinked spring in the striker assembly.
Solid shooter, former SF with combat experience. One of the safest shooters I've ever RM'd for.
I was able to get the striker to drop during testing. IIRC, it was a sharp twist of the grip/frame whilst trapping the slide. I suspect that he got in his car, reached back for the seat belt and during that process, the grip was trapped between his body and car seat.
Guy is such a safe shooter that we were on the range and I heard a muffled pop.........I turn around to look....and he is holding his left hand out the window... just as instructed while on the firing line. We checked him good for holes and at first, figured there was a clothing issue.
On armorer level inspection, I discovered the crossed sear springs and dicked up spring in the striker. Safety lever spring IIRC. I had to buy the parts from secondary vendors.
So.......I still own two P320s.....but my son and I don't carry them and choose the P365 instead. Make of that what you will.
Regards.
I do agree the P365 series is a better mousetrap.
It was an earlier model but had the factory upgrade on purchase.
If needed, I can get the box. I think it was a 2017 build. It's in that other thread.
We had an original model that did need to be sent back for the upgrade. Afterwards, it fired OOB and detonated the grip module and launched the extractor into orbit.
About the only thing I don’t like about the 365 is I don’t want a 320 as a full size counter part to train with.
My point is while the upgrade may be an improvement on the safety of the original model, even the "upgraded" guns aren't the equal of the current production in terms of mechanical safety.
The variations and QC issues in the "upgrades" only aggravate the issue.
IMHO pre 04/2018 guns should not be used for duty regardless of the "upgrade."
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