The Bill Drill

[jetfire]

Always does. Goes without saying.

Oh man, that's right. I forgot that once you make IDPA master you sign a card that says that none of the skills you use in IDPA like fast draw times, accurate shots at speed, or shooting on the move could ever be used to save your life.

[ToddG]

Back in my day, we didn't have to sign any stupid card because we already knew that none of the skills you use to excel in competitive shooting had anything to do with being able to draw and hit a real threat rapidly. None whatsoever.

[KeeFus]

I agree that some skill sets you learn in competition can possibly get you killed in a real gun fight. I would offer though that the reason I shoot IDPA, almost exclusively, is because I routinely carry concealed a G-19. You do not see me, or anyone else that I have noticed, wearing their gun around concealed or otherwise in some type of CR Speed Rig that sits out 3 inches in front of their thigh. Even more so with an STI topped off with a red dot sight of some sort.

The skill sets that I take away from IDPA are the ability to draw from concealment, reload from concealment, maintain cover, shooting on the move, shooting moving targets, and just basic manipulation of my weapon. Even more so is the self induced stress to perform under the pressure of a clock.

I would respectfully submit that any shooting, whether it be basic static marksmanship training or other shooting discipline, is better than nothing…which is what most folks do after they buy their weapons. Hell, Cops for that matter are the world’s worst! I’ve seen people on the firing line have a malfunction and raise their hand for the firearms instructor to come help them clear their weapon! Under the stress of a real gun fight they would be DOA. They can't think under the mere presence of other officers much less the presence of time. But as far as agencies are concerned, as long as they have a passing score they are ok. That’s just not enough for me.

Learning to manipulate my weapon under stress is what competition is to me. Some guys love to run-n-gun and that’s fine. Just don’t discount what competition can do…which is build competence & confidence with the weapon. Yes, there are gamers out there and, as with any sport, you will always have it.

[jar]

I would offer though that the reason I shoot IDPA, almost exclusively, is because I routinely carry concealed a G-19. You do not see me, or anyone else that I have noticed, wearing their gun around concealed or otherwise in some type of CR Speed Rig that sits out 3 inches in front of their thigh. Even more so with an STI topped off with a red dot sight of some sort.

There's no reason you can't use your carry gear to shoot USPSA Production also. You'll probably take some good natured ribbing if you use your concealment clothing, but no big deal. So many people who shoot IDPA think you need fancy race gear for USPSA and it's just not true. The Production equipment rules are VERY similar to IDPA SSP minus the concealment factor. There's some minor mods that are allowed in Production but not SSP (guide rods and stippling being the biggies), and you can use a dropped and/or offset holster, but that's about it.

[dravz]

There's no reason you can't use your carry gear to shoot USPSA Production also. You'll probably take some good natured ribbing if you use your concealment clothing, but no big deal. So many people who shoot IDPA think you need fancy race gear for USPSA and it's just not true. The Production equipment rules are VERY similar to IDPA SSP minus the concealment factor. There's some minor mods that are allowed in Production but not SSP (guide rods and stippling being the biggies), and you can use a dropped and/or offset holster, but that's about it.

I shoot USPSA Production just as a way to induce stress and perform under pressure. It also takes a little getting used to shooting stages without any warm-up, which I think is another meaningful skill you can take home from competition, as any defensive situation will happen spontaneously, also without any warm-up.

[JodyH]

I shoot USPSA Limited from concealed.
The reason I shoot in limited is because I carry AIWB and I like to load my magazines to full capacity.
Unless you're a top A or MA shooter in a hyper-competitive match, the extra .5 second concealment adds to you time won't matter at all.
When you first start shooting matches from concealed you might hear a few comments, but you can shut them down pretty quick by scoring higher than they do.
The gear queers who do the most talking are usually the worst shots, so that's usually not a problem.

[KeeFus]

I shot a USPSA match in November of 09. I shot in Production/Unclassified. I won that classification and would have placed third in 'B' class if I had been classified. Overall, I placed 9th out of 30 in production. I used my IDPA set up, with the exception of an extra double mag pouch...minus the concealment gear. I took a good bit of ribbing from the USPSA groupies because the guy I was there with, a GM in USPSA Limited as of last week, decided it would be nice to tell the squad the new guy shoots IDPA. I still don't understand why there is a beef between the 2 organizations but it is what it is and a little good natured shit talking is just fine with me. Believe me, I gave it back, especially when one particular guy's weapon, which had a kickstand and a red dot optic on it, went south on him...he didnt care for the comment though...guess the shit talking only goes one way when your gun goes to pot on you.

This was a local match @ Sir Walter Gun Club in Creedmore, NC. I dont know, but from what I was told on that day that 'local' match is one of the best local matches in the country...had to of been because a high profile shooter was there and was shooting on my squad. There were well over a hundred people in attendance. (I tried to attach the actual shooting results but it's in wordpad...)

I did have fun shooting the match as any trigger time is good but with over 100 people there it took all freaking day to shoot...it was literally about an hour before sunset before we finished. I haven't written off USPSA...there are just more opportunities to shoot IDPA in my area than there are USPSA matches. I can literally shoot an IDPA match here every weekend, which provides a bit of flexibility on my weekends off for options outside of shooting.

[NickA]

Back in my day, we didn't have to sign any stupid card because we already knew that none of the skills you use to excel in competitive shooting had anything to do with being able to draw and hit a real threat rapidly. None whatsoever.

I just heard a good quote on this, attributed to Mas Ayoob, though I don't know for sure-"A pistol match isn't a gunfight, but a gunfight is damn sure a pistol match" or words to that effect. Also have seen that Jim Cirillo listed competitive shooting as a common trait among the successful gunfighters he knew (among other things).

[rsa-otc]

I recently heard an interview with Bill Allard Jim Cirillo's partner on the NY Stake Out Squad. What isn't commonly know is that Bill was in more gun fights than his famous partner Cirillo. Definitely a been there done that kind of guy.

In this interview he stressed the importance of acquiring the front sight during a gun fight. He also stated that he felt competition even bulls eye is important to surviving the fight. Competition strengthened your mental focus on front sight, press under stress. He liked IDPA. Funny how an experienced gunfight survivor finds IDPA good training for gun fights and lessor experienced folks tell you it's orly a game is not serious training.

[NickA]

I recently heard an interview with Bill Allard Jim Cirillo's partner on the NY Stake Out Squad. What isn't commonly know is that Bill was in more gun fights than his famous partner Cirillo.

That was the ProArms podcast right? Their interview with Bob Stasch(?) Of the Chicago PD was also outstanding.