Current opinions of the Colt LE6920?

[M2CattleCo]

I’ve built up about 10 Colt OEM-2 uppers that were purchased by LE this year and all of them have been excellent. I think only one had an unmarked carrier, barrel markings have been various, all receivers cage code marked.

All of them have been perfect and run perfect. I’ve shot a lot of 6920 along with a few 16” mids lately and I’m totally of the opinion that mid gas is the most overblown, overhyped, overrated, misunderstood aspects of the AR.

Whatever Colt is doing with their barrels and bcgs, just works.

[Guerrero]

For those wondering, here's Mac's video that people are referencing:

[EPF]

Only a sample of 2, but for what it’s worth I was asked by a friend to help familiarize 2 brothers who were new AR owners this summer. Both gentlemen showed up with brand new “CR” carbines which were purchased at a local shop for 1k each.

The guns seemed rock solid as far as assembly, correct staking etc. Each gun held up to 500 rounds in about 5 hours. If I were in the market I’d buy one without concern.

[MistWolf]

Garand shooters are laughing their butts off!

[Phaedrus]

I just re-watched Mac's video. He is just regurgitating info provided to him by Chris Bartocci.

Their heartburn is that the guns are no longer marked the same and Colt appears to be using sub contracted 'cage code" parts rather than all or most of the parts being made in house.

No one has been able to articulate any functional or material defect in the rifles. It's just collector / fan boy BS.

Well, I've never owned a Colt rifle, only Colt 1911s back in the day, and I don't have a dog in this fight. But to be fair to Mr. Bartocci I don't think he ever claimed that a new Colt rifle is no good. Bear in mind that he's a historian and worked for Colt for five years so he has a very solid grasp on the history of the company. He's also written the technical and owners manual for dozens of rifles including my CORE15. Additionally he's written a couple of the better books extant on the AR/Black Rifle. He's definitely not just talking out of his ass. I've not seen every video but I've seen several hours of him discussing the history of Colt and specifically the M16/AR15/M4 platforms. My takeaway from all that is that he's simply saying that "back in the day" you could trace virtually every single part and component back to the maker, and that the vast majority of them were made in house. Further, he makes a solid case that it's not that way anymore. He never claims a new Colt sucks but there's kind of a Ship of Theseus point to be made. Setting aside the concept of stacking tolerances it's probably true that if all the individual parts meet spec the gun should be okay. But aside from the Pony roll mark (it's not a rollmark nowadays but you get my point) it's really a parts/Frankengun, kind of the firearms version of a hot dog with meat from 200 different animals. In theory a hot dog with parts of 200 beasts should be pretty much the same a weiner made from a single animal...but which one would you rather eat and which would you pay more for?

If anyone can find a record of Bartocci saying a new Colt is junk, please enlighten me. I could be mistaken. I'm going by the words I've heard him say though, not things attributed to him. BTW, MAC seems like a world-class douchebag (not that I've ever met him) and I place no value in his opinions.

Would I buy a new LE6920? I dunno. Just handing them there's nothing much to differentiate them from a decent milspec gun like my CORE15. The only ones I've shot were older ones from their better days. Probably now that CZ owns them I suppose it's a safe bet that the warranty will be honored if you have any issues. So long as you avoid Frankenguns assembled in JoeBubba's storage shed it seems that ARs are generally pretty solid from most reputable makers. I'm not their target market as I don't really have much use for the front sight post, and I tend to prefer just a flat rail. But that's only my personal preference. If you do want that kind of rifle I don't see why a person wouldn't buy one as they don't really seem overpriced.

[HCM]

Well, I've never owned a Colt rifle, only Colt 1911s back in the day, and I don't have a dog in this fight. But to be fair to Mr. Bartocci I don't think he ever claimed that a new Colt rifle is no good. Bear in mind that he's a historian and worked for Colt for five years so he has a very solid grasp on the history of the company. He's also written the technical and owners manual for dozens of rifles including my CORE15. Additionally he's written a couple of the better books extant on the AR/Black Rifle. He's definitely not just talking out of his ass. I've not seen every video but I've seen several hours of him discussing the history of Colt and specifically the M16/AR15/M4 platforms. My takeaway from all that is that he's simply saying that "back in the day" you could trace virtually every single part and component back to the maker, and that the vast majority of them were made in house. Further, he makes a solid case that it's not that way anymore. He never claims a new Colt sucks but there's kind of a Ship of Theseus point to be made. Setting aside the concept of stacking tolerances it's probably true that if all the individual parts meet spec the gun should be okay. But aside from the Pony roll mark (it's not a rollmark nowadays but you get my point) it's really a parts/Frankengun, kind of the firearms version of a hot dog with meat from 200 different animals. In theory a hot dog with parts of 200 beasts should be pretty much the same a weiner made from a single animal...but which one would you rather eat and which would you pay more for?

If anyone can find a record of Bartocci saying a new Colt is junk, please enlighten me. I could be mistaken. I'm going by the words I've heard him say though, not things attributed to him. BTW, MAC seems like a world-class douchebag (not that I've ever met him) and I place no value in his opinions.

Would I buy a new LE6920? I dunno. Just handing them there's nothing much to differentiate them from a decent milspec gun like my CORE15. The only ones I've shot were older ones from their better days. Probably now that CZ owns them I suppose it's a safe bet that the warranty will be honored if you have any issues. So long as you avoid Frankenguns assembled in JoeBubba's storage shed it seems that ARs are generally pretty solid from most reputable makers. I'm not their target market as I don't really have much use for the front sight post, and I tend to prefer just a flat rail. But that's only my personal preference. If you do want that kind of rifle I don't see why a person wouldn't buy one as they don't really seem overpriced.

The OP's requirements were:

1) an AR that is ready to go out of the box with no need to scour the internet for out-of-stock parts;

2) is the Colt LE6920 still the go-to commercial AR in the $1000 range?

The current CR6920 meets both those requirements.

Like "mil spec" the CR6920 is not a premium gun, it's the minimum for serious use.

I don't care about cosmetics, collectability or historical bloviating. I care about reliability, durability and accuracy.

Regarding the Ship of Theseus, Colt's change in the prefix from LE to CR negates that argument. Nor did "all US Govt. parts" ever equal "all parts made in house by Colt. "

Bartocci never directly said it was good or bad, because he doesn't want to further burn bridges, rather he did a lot of harumpfing about how it's "not the same" implying the CR guns were no good then backed off in later videos etc .



Despite all the "good old days BS in the gun world, the fact is some changes are for the better. An example being older S&W revolvers. The video below is from a S&W Armorer with nearly 50 years of experience explaining why he believes the current S&W revolvers are functionally better guns.



The Founder of P-F, Todd Louis Green best addressed the brand fan boyism so common in the gun world in his "Trust No One" blog post:

https://pistol-training.com/articles...rs-perspective

Trying to decide which pistol to buy? If so, you’re probably looking for one that is guaranteed to be durable and reliable. Well, I’ve got bad news for you. There is no such gun. The day when you could point to a particular brand or model and be certain it would work 100% out of the box and last forever is gone.

After ten years in the firearms industry, including jobs at two major prestigious gun manufacturers, I have come to a very simple conclusion: no one makes a gun that you can be certain will work. Bias and personal preferences aside, most of the major manufacturers are more or less equal nowadays in quality. It wasn’t always that way, but as price became an increasingly important factor in buying decisions of both individuals and government entities, everything changed.

[OlongJohnson]

He never claims a new Colt sucks but there's kind of a Ship of Theseus point to be made. Setting aside the concept of stacking tolerances it's probably true that if all the individual parts meet spec the gun should be okay. But aside from the Pony roll mark (it's not a rollmark nowadays but you get my point) it's really a parts/Frankengun, kind of the firearms version of a hot dog with meat from 200 different animals.

Sorry, you said "stacking tolerances" and that's one of my pet peeves in internet chatter about quality.

The bolded part is actually one fundamental characteristic of a proper design. If the specs are good, and the parts meet the specs and are assembled correctly, then the assembly is good. Period.

"Tolerance stacking" only leads to problems if the tolerances aren't actually designed correctly and the system depends on parts being made within a range that is less than the tolerances allowed for that part in the design documentation. That's not a manufacturing problem, it's a design problem. If the manufacturer accepts from its supply chain and uses parts that are not to print because they usually go together and function OK, that's a manufacturing problem.

---------------------------

My ARs all have parts from a bunch of different sources, which I've done research on and believe to be good and reliable. They're "parts guns," but I didn't pick out the parts for their low price, I picked them out for their quality and features. I don't believe any one company makes the best of everything. Some of the parts are Colt parts, because my research and what I can observe about the parts in hand indicates they are the best available of that part. Others are Mega Arms, BCM, Magpul, Geissele, even Armalite. And barrels based on which maker had specs I wanted at an appropriate price; ARP, Wilson Combat, Centurion, etc. I've sent multiple barrels back to the manufacturer for being junk, and there are companies I wouldn't waste anyone's time buying from or recommending. I have gauges, a bore scope, magnifiers, official manuals, patience, and a lot of tools.

I'm tempted by those $850 Colts, but can't figure out when I'd ever grab it over one of the rifles I already have. At least without replacing the furniture, and then still probably not.

[Phaedrus]

I can base my choices on what I feel is important but I can't choose for anyone else. Again, I have no issue with the Colt. More importantly I don't think Bartocci does either. That's my point, that people are misunderstanding his point of view. It may not matter to you or me what the cage code is on those parts but it might matter to someone. For that reason I respect the pedantic way he goes about his reviews. More info is better- one can always ignore or disregard the things that don't factor into your decision, but it's nice that the info is there for anyone that does care.

[Phaedrus]

I'm tempted by those $850 Colts, but can't figure out when I'd ever grab it over one of the rifles I already have. At least without replacing the furniture, and then still probably not.

That's about where I am. I'm not a collector nor rich guy but rather a humble chef. One of my best friends has been a big collector for decades and has amassed the kind of collection they used to do TV shows about (including old drillings that cost more than any vehicle I've ever owned). Maybe if I made 10X the money I do I'd have ten the gun collection I do! But as it is my stuff is just users, utilitarian guns that I plink with or train with. Even at just $850 there's a lot of "fat" on the LE6920 that I'd have to trim and replace. There's a way I like to set up all my carbines, as close to each other as possible for training reasons. But I'm sure it's a great base gun for someone that prefers their carbines set up differently. Realistically I shoot my Bren 805 the most, followed by my PWS MkI Mod1, then my AR.

[rob_s]

a decent milspec gun like my CORE15.

AFAIK CORE guns aren’t “milspec”.