Guns as modern fetishes (culled from shotgun thread)

[Trooper224]

There was a time when firearms may have been more ubiquitous in American homes, but most of those were working tools of one form or another. Now, we seem to be experiencing a reproliferation of firearms. However, we're also living in a time where everything seems to become fetishized and made into some kind of lifestyle talisman. The average American also seems to be less mature, holding onto their childishness at an ever increasing rate. Consequently, firearms seem to be viewed as cool toys, or tactical fantasy fashion rather than the serious weapons they are. Firearms like this play into that trend, one that personally concerns me.

-Side conversation made into it's own topic- BBI

[JRB]

There was a time when firearms may have been more ubiquitous in American homes, but most of those were working tools of one form or another. Now, we seem to be experiencing a reproliferation of firearms. However, we're also living in a time where everything seems to become fetishized and made into some kind of lifestyle talisman. The average American also seems to be less mature, holding onto their childishness at an ever increasing rate. Consequently, firearms seem to be viewed as cool toys, or tactical fantasy fashion rather than the serious weapons they are. Firearms like this play into that trend, one that personally concerns me.

I'd contend that weapons have always been fetishized. Not just guns, but swords, axes, etc through the ages that have been embellished and finely made from ornate materials just for the sake of being fancy clearly proves this.
Conspicuous consumption, or assertion of fine taste or means, lifestyle talisman, by any other name it's the same shit. It's made to impress you so you buy it to hopefully impress other people. Seller makes money, you get a fun shiny new thing to brag about; Nothing new under the sun there.

What has changed is the constant exposure to video and image media that the gunternet has played to just the same as every other commercial industry/consumer commodity genre, and the myriad of available commercial firearms that are within the means of the average hobbyist.
Working class American homes couldn't often afford more than a handful of different firearms, so utility had to be prioritized over 'I just think it's cool'.
Today, I can buy a pointless space-shotgun that has no practical use beyond giggles at a square range, and that's fine, because it's a hobby to be enjoyed and I'm fortunate to have the means to do so. Also, and more importantly, it's my motherfucking Constitutional right to do so unless the state can make a lawful and compelling argument to deny me that right.

As for the lack of maturity/enduring childishness etc. IMHO that's an entirely different situation. The root cause I see is a societally-pushed lack of bad results and outcomes following people's bad decisions in life.
Maturity, responsibility, and ownership of one's actions cannot be expected from folks who grew up without effective parenting into a world without an effective legal system, and thereby enjoy a paradigm that almost deliberately rewards 'cultural' bad decisions, displacing blame, and lying as much as possible.

Stupid space shotguns being lawfully sold to video gamers and airsoft kiddies collectively have nothing to do with that problem.

But that's just my two cents and it's worth probably less than that.

That all said - with NFA laws being as silly as they are, a 7+1 or 8+1 'bullpump' that was dead reliable and came with sensible controls, skipped the dual-tube-mag stuff, had good sling mounting points, and had a LOP adjustment of some kind would probably get my money. No disrespect to a sorted 590, 870, 1301, or Benelli.

[Trooper224]

I'd contend that weapons have always been fetishized. Not just guns, but swords, axes, etc through the ages that have been embellished and finely made from ornate materials just for the sake of being fancy clearly proves this.
Conspicuous consumption, or assertion of fine taste or means, lifestyle talisman, by any other name it's the same shit. It's made to impress you so you buy it to hopefully impress other people. Seller makes money, you get a fun shiny new thing to brag about; Nothing new under the sun there.

I'd contend that you're completely off base in your assertion. Embellishment and fetishization are entirely different things, especially when you're trying to use examples from ages when people practised values and societal standards far different than our own. That's call false equivalency. We're talking 2021AD, not 1021AD.

What has changed is the constant exposure to video and image media that the gunternet has played to just the same as every other commercial industry/consumer commodity genre, and the myriad of available commercial firearms that are within the means of the average hobbyist.
Working class American homes couldn't often afford more than a handful of different firearms, so utility had to be prioritized over 'I just think it's cool'.
Today, I can buy a pointless space-shotgun that has no practical use beyond giggles at a square range, and that's fine, because it's a hobby to be enjoyed and I'm fortunate to have the means to do so. Also, and more importantly, it's my motherfucking Constitutional right to do so unless the state can make a lawful and compelling argument to deny me that right.

I never said a thing about infringing upon anyones "motherfucking Constitutional right to do so". I knew someone one would play that card though, I'm surpised it took as long as it did. I'm talking about responsibilities. Those aren't mutually exclusive of "motherfucking Constitutional right " , even though it's very unfashionable to admit amongst the, "motherfucking Constitutional right" crowd.

As for the lack of maturity/enduring childishness etc. IMHO that's an entirely different situation. The root cause I see is a societally-pushed lack of bad results and outcomes following people's bad decisions in life.
Maturity, responsibility, and ownership of one's actions cannot be expected from folks who grew up without effective parenting into a world without an effective legal system, and thereby enjoy a paradigm that almost deliberately rewards 'cultural' bad decisions, displacing blame, and lying as much as possible.

Stupid space shotguns being lawfully sold to video gamers and airsoft kiddies collectively have nothing to do with that problem.

I never made an attempt to promote stupid space shotguns as the root cause, or even an indicator of our societies ills. From what I can see, you failed to grasp my point entirely. But hey, you've got your "motherfucking Constitutional rights" so screw everything else.

[JRB]

I'd contend that you're completely off base in your assertion. Embellishment and fetishization are entirely different things, especially when you're trying to use examples from ages when people practised values and societal standards far different than our own. That's call false equivalency. We're talking 2021AD, not 1021AD.



I never said a thing about infringing upon anyones "motherfucking Constitutional right to do so". I knew someone one would play that card though, I'm surpised it took as long as it did. I'm talking about responsibilities. Those aren't mutually exclusive of "motherfucking Constitutional right " , even though it's very unfashionable to admit amongst the, "motherfucking Constitutional right" crowd.



I never made an attempt to promote stupid space shotguns as the root cause, or even an indicator of our societies ills. From what I can see, you failed to grasp my point entirely. But hey, you've got your "motherfucking Constitutional rights" so screw everything else.

Gotta love it when an LEO is lecturing a career NCO about the inherent responsibilities in Constitutional rights. 2020 sucked enough being deployed through Turkey, Iran, and COVID but 2021 is sure steaming up to be a fucking contender.

I thought we were having a discussion, in which case I'd be really interested in you elaborating on those differences because I see no difference. Humanity has been obsessing about their weapons and making their weapons prettier than needed throughout every recorded culture across all of recorded time.
But if you're more interested in a self-aggrandizing musing about people daring to like guns you don't like, I'd invite you to consider the GD section instead of the tech sections.

[farscott]

Setting aside the politics, my belief is that firearms have become fetishes (attraction to an inanimate object) for many people. Part of it has resulted from people playing video games now having enough money to purchase the "cool guns" in those games. Part of it those same people buying what the cool people use(d), especially if it is hard to acquire. I see an intense interest for the 10mm version of the MP5 for this reason. I remember when the CZ 75 was not easily imported during the 1980s; it was described as a panacea for every known handgun issue, including capacity, action type (you choose), reliability, and firepower. Then with regular importation, the pistol became less a talisman and more another "wonder-nine"

A great example is the custom 1911 world where appearance is more important than function. Some smiths have a reputation for making beautiful pistols; however, those pistols rarely appear to be sold with any signs of wear. Nor is the function or reliability referenced or discussed. Fetishes, not tools.

[JHC]

There was a time when firearms may have been more ubiquitous in American homes, but most of those were working tools of one form or another. Now, we seem to be experiencing a reproliferation of firearms. However, we're also living in a time where everything seems to become fetishized and made into some kind of lifestyle talisman. The average American also seems to be less mature, holding onto their childishness at an ever increasing rate. Consequently, firearms seem to be viewed as cool toys, or tactical fantasy fashion rather than the serious weapons they are. Firearms like this play into that trend, one that personally concerns me.

-Side conversation made into it's own topic- BBI

OMG this is so on point!!! All of it, not just the bolded. Tact'd out firearms and all the trappings worn on one's sleeve are like the new "Salt Life".

[BehindBlueI's]

I'm sure I've seen ceremonial weapons (war clubs and blades) with "fetish" descriptors on the sign at various museums both home and abroad. I think this could be an interesting conversation. Can we define "fetish" for the context of the thread?

[revchuck38]

There was a time when firearms may have been more ubiquitous in American homes, but most of those were working tools of one form or another. Now, we seem to be experiencing a reproliferation of firearms. However, we're also living in a time where everything seems to become fetishized and made into some kind of lifestyle talisman. The average American also seems to be less mature, holding onto their childishness at an ever increasing rate. Consequently, firearms seem to be viewed as cool toys, or tactical fantasy fashion rather than the serious weapons they are. Firearms like this play into that trend, one that personally concerns me.

-Side conversation made into it's own topic- BBI

I think this is most obvious with the CAS folks, though to their credit they've never pretended that it's something else. And I have to admit, shooting a Colt SAA, an M92, and a coach gun in a match looks like a lot of fun!

[BaiHu]

I'll take a crack at it after we look at Merriam.

fet·ish
/ˈfediSH/
noun

1.
a form of sexual desire in which gratification is linked to an abnormal degree to a particular object, item of clothing, part of the body, etc.
"Victorian men developed fetishes focusing on feet, shoes, and boots"

2.
an inanimate object worshiped for its supposed magical powers or because it is considered to be inhabited by a spirit.

I think the word extraneous comes to mind when I think of the gun fetish world.

1. Can you use the guns you own to a high degree of competency? Hit what you intend to hit at a par time commensurate with self-defense or hunting.

2. Are you competent in hunting animals vs self defense or both with the firearms you own?

3. Do you have firearms that are for a purpose you don't use it for? Ie collecting.

4. Do you have bells and whistles that you don't use and/or don't know how to use?

I think these are the most objective standards I can come up with. This doesn't mean I'm judging someone's right or desire

All stupid 2A distractions aside I think the gun community is great that it attracts so many different types of owners expressing their 2A rights. It's like being a part of a car club that accepts Model T and Model S in the same lot to admire.

I think (not having been part of the previous thread that this was spun off of) that this discussion is more about the culture of the modern gun owner, and not a legal discussion about "owning too many guns", but maybe I'm wrong and too lazy to go find the previous thread.

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[HeavyDuty]

I’ve always thought engraved Glock slide cover plates (especially Punisher and biohazard emblems) are a good indicator of emotional maturity and fetishization.

OMG this is so on point!!! All of it, not just the bolded. Tact'd out firearms and all the trappings worn on one's sleeve are like the new "Salt Life".

Am I like the only person who always thought these said “Slut Life?” Typography fail.