Guns as modern fetishes (culled from shotgun thread)

[BehindBlueI's]

I think guns as a "fetish" is overly dramatic, and introduces misplaced analogies with religious fetishes.

That's something I was thinking on, as weapons sometimes also contained what I would consider religious fetishes.

I don't remember if I saw it here on PF or elsewhere, but https://www.livescience.com/51802-me...scription.html

The River Witham sword was forged in Germany, which was then the blade-making center of Europe, according to the British Museum. And pre-Christian Germanic tribesman inscribed runes onto their swords, axes and armor to "endow the items with magical powers," the Fyris Swords Project researchers wrote in a paper published in the journal Waffen- und Kostümkunde (Weaponry and Costumes) in 2009.

It's possible that this ancient tradition was carried over to Christian times and that the inscriptions on the blades were therefore meant to "invoke God’s holy name and his grace to gain support and protection in battle," according to the researchers.

The first two letters on the River Witham sword are ND, which van Hasselt said might be a kind of invocation that stands for "Nostrum Dominus (our Lord) or Nomine Domini (name of the Lord)."

The XOXcombination that follows could refer to the Holy Trinity of the Christian faith. And the two plus sign-shaped symbols before and after the inscription are likely Christian crosses, according to the Fyris Swords Project researchers.

I would assume the fetish/war club combinations were of a similar meaning to the owners within their own cultural trappings.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

How many golf clubs does one "need"? How about pairs of shoes (don't ask my wife)?


In a long life of shooting, I have never encountered anyone for whom guns are a fetish. I have met collectors, but would not denigrate their choices...art, stamps, cars, guns, whatever.


I have seen lots of folks for whom a gun is a talisman to ward off evil, rather than a tool to confront it. Skill is tougher to attain than "stuff". This brings Cooper's observation that simply owning a piano does not make one a pianist.

Back to the resistance to train theme. As Karl Rehn pointed out, over 90% of LTCs take no other training than the course. With constitutional carry, that will drop the number of folks with even a small minimum experience. I've gone over the need to train to my Taurus 85 friends, to no avail. Not that you can't spend the time to shoot a snubby decently as we have discussed. No need to rehash those who won't train.

[Trooper224]

I think guns as a "fetish" is overly dramatic, and introduces misplaced analogies with religious fetishes.

Guns can be symbolic. Some people own guns largely because of their symbolism.

Perhaps, but it's interesting that, in a statement I wrote consisting of 107 words, that's the only one that's been fixated on and some seem to be offended by the association. I also used the term "lifestyle talisman ", but that has gone largely untouched. From a social standpoint, there are some very unhealthy things going on in the gun culture that don't serve us well. It doesn't matter if these things happened in antiquity. To that I say, "Well, no shit Captain Obvious." We don't live in bronze age Greece, or medieval England. We live here and now in 21st century USA with the attached concerns. Excusing all of this with the "muh rights" and "you do you bro" mentality doesn't benifit us, or make us stronger as a collective. I'd like to see some behavior that exhibits maturity and responsibility, rather than infantile ass hattery from people who should no better.

I'd like to have people consider how their actions reflect upon everyone else in the group, rather than pose on instaface with an AR while you pull your leggings down to your pubic bone, or put the "your fucked" dust cover on your rifle, or strut around the stop and rob with your SA sixgun in a fast draw holster (saw that just the other day). I wish people were mature enough to take just one second and think. "Who and what are my actions best serving?"

We constantly condemn the left on their behavior, and yet we seem to be completely unwilling to question or analyze the highly debatable behaviors and underlying pssychology of gun owners. Or rather, our condemnation doesn't proceed past posting a photo of the Chipolte Twins.

[Clusterfrack]

You make good points, @Trooper224. I'm not offended by the idea of guns as fetishes. I just think 'symbolism' is a better term. Everything seems to be symbolic these days--especially when posted on Instagram or Twitter--which amplify fringe ideas.

[BehindBlueI's]

I've no idea who the Chipotle twins are. I originally figured some internet celebs, but are they open carry advocates or something?

I'm personally more interested in the notion of weapons as a fetish and the history of it, not because I'm offended by it but because it's interesting.

As far as if the starship trooper shotgun is bad for us as a whole, is it? If it gets more people interested in guns is that a bad thing? Sig's rainbow colors? My Model 29 because Dirty Harry? Are guns strictly for those who are "serious" about them, in whatever context you decide that to be, or is a broader base of gun owners increasing the political cost of trying to limit gun rights? There's lots of "serious" hunters who the term "Fudd" was coined for, after all.

[mtnbkr]

I've no idea who the Chipotle twins are. I originally figured some internet celebs, but are they open carry advocates or something?

I'm personally more interested in the notion of weapons as a fetish and the history of it, not because I'm offended by it but because it's interesting.

As far as if the starship trooper shotgun is bad for us as a whole, is it? If it gets more people interested in guns is that a bad thing? Sig's rainbow colors? My Model 29 because Dirty Harry? Are guns strictly for those who are "serious" about them, in whatever context you decide that to be, or is a broader base of gun owners increasing the political cost of trying to limit gun rights? There's lots of "serious" hunters who the term "Fudd" was coined for, after all.

Nope. Guns can and should be fun. I've painted more than one stock garish colors just because I can.

Sometimes we take ourselves far too seriously.

Chris

[Mark D]

Am I the only the only person who read "CAS" and thinks "close air support"? I was momentarily confused, thinking there was a whole group of dudes with fetishes for combat controllers.

Side note on Cowboy Action Shooting - that is a weird freaking sport in my opinion. Mainly because of the way they adopt personas and characteristics of the period. That's what distinguishes them from other shooting sports.

Back to the topic at hand... How does the new S&W shotgun fit in with fetishes and symbolism? Damned if I know. It seems like a derpy scattergun that will attract derpy people. Which is fine I suppose.

Weapons have always been personalized and customized. Is that fetishization? I don't know. There's an inherent human respect for tools that are designed and manufactured to take life. And people throughout history have embellished, engraved, customized and otherwise decorated their weapons to improve performance and demonstrate their status and values.

ETA: I'm convinced that a lot of gun owners, maybe most of them, treat guns as talismans. The vast majority never get real training, and most seldom shoot. For a lot of them, a gun is the equivalent of a lucky rabbits' foot, owned to ward off bad fortune.

[jh9]

From a social standpoint, there are some very unhealthy things going on in the gun culture that don't serve us well.

This statement stands on its own, and I don't know how many people would disagree with it. I don't.

I'm not sure treating guns as anything other than "serious weapons" (which is what I got out of the original post) is the real problem. Outside the fringe cases (Punisher skulls, 'you're fucked' dust covers, lego Glocks that look like toys) I don't know I'd say it's even a symptom.

You seem to be getting at personality types who are completely unconcerned with the damage they're doing to other people on any scale so long as they get their jollies. Aggressive open carriers and attention-seeking facetweets are examples you used. Guns in those cases usually seem like they're just a means to an end. Attention-seeking is the goal; a shitty tapco'd SKS is just how they get there. You could probably use terms like talismans/totems/fetishes/etc to describe the gun in those cases. They generally don't seem to have any spiritual or religious significance in that case; maybe "shibboleth" is a better description. Because now we get into cultural and identity stuff which seems to be what you're actually interested in with the whole "lifestyle talisman" thing. Religious decoration is just a distraction from that point.

[SiriusBlunder]

I've no idea who the Chipotle twins are. I originally figured some internet celebs, but are they open carry advocates or something?

Open carry dudes that caused Chipotle to ban firearms except for LEOs in their restaurants.

Chipotle asks customers not to bring firearms to stores

[willie]

I have hung around gun shops for 50 years. Before then I was spending time at a couple hardware stores that sold guns. 20 years ago I noticed more kids buying guns. They wanted what they saw in movies and on tv. As has been said, the internet has speeded up exposure to various types. Some rush in to buy them. Our level of consumerism is a factor. Many buy items out of impulse. I see very many persons buying guns, and some of them have no business with a firearm. I see dummies picking up AR's and running around the shop as they were entering a building. There does seem to be a fantasy playing in their heads. Cooper had a good term for these folks. He said they were dilettantes.