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Thread: Interesting Warrior Poet video

  1. #1

    Interesting Warrior Poet video

    Interesting Warrior Poet video:


  2. #2
    The drawing of guns against unarmed attackers was very regular in the footage. It happened a few times at ECQC, too, but typically right after those evolutions Craig would talk the students through the draw and ask if it was a good idea. We didn't always all agree--it can get complicated sometimes. But I wonder if it's adequately discussed in the WPS class. Just wondering, not judging.
    O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts, And men have lost their reason.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Moylan View Post
    The drawing of guns against unarmed attackers was very regular in the footage. It happened a few times at ECQC, too, but typically right after those evolutions Craig would talk the students through the draw and ask if it was a good idea. We didn't always all agree--it can get complicated sometimes. But I wonder if it's adequately discussed in the WPS class. Just wondering, not judging.
    Just a quick point - SOCP isn’t a WPS class, it’s the combatives course for Army SOF and some other agencies and it’s very good for its purpose.

    http://ussocp.com/training/instructors/greg-thompson/


    I think your question is a valid one. A civilian combatives class has to be as much about tactics as techniques. Avoiding a fight is nearly ALWAYS a primary goal in a civ context. A MIL context is very different and as we discuss here over the years, many “civilian” self defense courses fail to provide a decision making framework robust enough to help navigate all of the legal complexities of your environment.

    I can’t speak intelligently on his instructor development programs but Greg is a smart guy and I’m watching with interest to see how SOCP makes the transition to the civ context.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moylan View Post
    The drawing of guns against unarmed attackers was very regular in the footage. It happened a few times at ECQC, too, but typically right after those evolutions Craig would talk the students through the draw and ask if it was a good idea. We didn't always all agree--it can get complicated sometimes. But I wonder if it's adequately discussed in the WPS class. Just wondering, not judging.
    I was thinking the same thing when I first saw it occurring, but then I noticed that there was a tarp placed to provide some secrecy and I assume that they were taking the students through the drill blind as a test to see what their thought process was. So each student made some mistakes and they probably debriefed it with just that one student, so the next student came in blind.

    That would be a great way to test folks, but I agree that a better way to train them would be to give them your expectations and allow them to successfully navigate the scenario.

  5. #5
    My company teaches FOF to Civilians. The way I took the exercises in this video, it's more isolation drills than true scenario based training.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluemonday View Post
    My company teaches FOF to Civilians. The way I took the exercises in this video, it's more isolation drills than true scenario based training.
    For all we know, they covered all the issues we’ve discussed. I think it’s impossible to judge based on the short “action” clips in the video and therefore unfair to make a judgement either way without actually attending the course or reading the POI.

    The questions raised here are good ones, hopefully someone will come along who can answer them. IMO, the more good combatives for civilian CCW courses the better.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by EPF View Post
    For all we know, they covered all the issues we’ve discussed. I think it’s impossible to judge based on the short “action” clips in the video and therefore unfair to make a judgement either way without actually attending the course or reading the POI.

    The questions raised here are good ones, hopefully someone will come along who can answer them. IMO, the more good combatives for civilian CCW courses the better.
    100% agree with you. The only thing I'll add is there are only so many scenarios you can do in an open space like a dojo without structures, props, vehicles, etc.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Moylan View Post
    The drawing of guns against unarmed attackers was very regular in the footage. It happened a few times at ECQC, too, but typically right after those evolutions Craig would talk the students through the draw and ask if it was a good idea. We didn't always all agree--it can get complicated sometimes. But I wonder if it's adequately discussed in the WPS class. Just wondering, not judging.
    I think it was my second or third ECQC on the 2-on-1 evo I got paired with a known entity who was pretty salty. The evo started and when I got a good tie I went to guns, after Craig asked why I went to guns on an unarmed opponent. My answer was because it’s “Joe”, the more I thought about it I realized 1. It’ll be hard to justify shooting an unarmed man in most situations even if they are Jon Jones 2. I’m not going to know the background of a street assailant so I need to work through my force progression instead of jumping to lethal because they are known bad ass.

  9. #9
    Site Supporter Totem Polar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bratch View Post
    I think it was my second or third ECQC on the 2-on-1 evo I got paired with a known entity who was pretty salty. The evo started and when I got a good tie I went to guns, after Craig asked why I went to guns on an unarmed opponent. My answer was because it’s “Joe”, the more I thought about it I realized 1. It’ll be hard to justify shooting an unarmed man in most situations even if they are Jon Jones 2. I’m not going to know the background of a street assailant so I need to work through my force progression instead of jumping to lethal because they are known bad ass.
    That brings to mind the concept of what actually is known, in terms of articulating force disparity. One of my favorite training buddies is a late 40s, 150lb blonde mother of 2. Could she articulate going to guns in the same tie against Joe? What about if we know that she’s a mid-level purple belt with 7 or 8 years BJJ experience and a Krav black belt? What about you or me, if we have a torn meniscus? Or a rotator cuff surgery coming up? Or synthetic lenses and scleral buckles in our eyes? This stuff can get very situational, and very complex very quickly.

    Makes avoidance look like the golden ticket.

    But I digress. Yeah, FoF is a real eye-opener. Yet another “two kinds:” those that have done it, and get it, and those that haven’t.
    ”Farming looks mighty easy when your plow is a pencil, and you're a thousand miles from the corn field.”
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Totem Polar View Post
    That brings to mind the concept of what actually is known, in terms of articulating force disparity. One of my favorite training buddies is a late 40s, 150lb blonde mother of 2. Could she articulate going to guns in the same tie against Joe? What about if we know that she’s a mid-level purple belt with 7 or 8 years BJJ experience and a Krav black belt? What about you or me, if we have a torn meniscus? Or a rotator cuff surgery coming up? Or synthetic lenses and scleral buckles in our eyes? This stuff can get very situational, and very complex very quickly.

    Makes avoidance look like the golden ticket.

    But I digress. Yeah, FoF is a real eye-opener. Yet another “two kinds:” those that have done it, and get it, and those that haven’t.
    We have to be careful to see ourselves as we actually are and not some mental image we have in our heads.

    I was thinking on the disparity of force in my evo and mentioned that in the debrief. Craig was quick to point out that I was taller than Joe probably didn’t give up much weight and had some training under my belt, there was no disparity. In my mind none of those things existed, I was still a dumb kid just learning how to walk. Now I’m 20-30# heavier with most of it decent weight and have another 4-5 years of BJJ under my belt. If anything most people would be able to start claiming a disparity against me instead of the other way.

    Women and the elderly/injured should always have an easier basis claiming a disparity situation but like you said how does training affect that and can a prosecutor spin your training into turning you into a trained “killer”. I hadn’t thought about it until now but that could be a downside to the “lethal” Krav Maga marketing.

    Avoidance is the ticket. I “fight” several days a week in the gym, don’t need to prove it anywhere else.

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