SCAT Drill

[JCN]

Well, dang boys-I’d better get my speed up!

One thing I do contemplate occasionally is reaction time after the shot(s). I don’t think I’m rationalizing, but seriously, is there such a thing as “too fast”? The gentlemen at Hits talk about splits of .5 seconds being reasonable for analysis of what is happening with opponent(s)-@Wayne Dobbs. I recall a body can of a Deputy(@jlw) who had a confrontation in a bedroom with an armed suspect. One shot, and the suspect dropped like a bag of rocks. The second shot went over and into the dwelling.
I’m impressed with @JCN and his technical shooting expertise and others-no sour grapes. And I understand a burst may be a solution to a seated/prone adversary. But a single shot might just save the day…discuss if you like.
I’ll be dry firing to increase speed to the first shot.

I can only relate to how this applies to competitive shooting, but with good shot calling you can make the decision to shoot or no shoot or shoot again in real time based on vision.

On this clip the second target I didn’t like the shot so I took a make up in real time.
On the second to last target I went back to it to take another shot.



The better mechanics you have the more mental bandwidth you have to process things quicker.

Also @1Rangemaster they are absolutely NOT bursts. Even going at full speed I am calling each shot and you see this demonstrated better when we get to swingers and Texas stars.

This is “slow” vision:


Also the vast majority of USPSA are pairs (both aimed even if fast) or single shots (steel). Bursts aren’t even part of the genre for practical shooting for the most part.

Think of it this way:
The better and faster your index, the higher likelihood your target is still in the same place when you pull the trigger.

For people that take an eternity to get the first shot off, the target likely isn’t still in that place or position which is why it’s important to have a good index.

I think using a P938 SAS on a close Texas Star illustrates what I’m talking about. You can see the muzzle tracking the movement of the swinger and the shots come when on target. Moving faster on a transition for the last plate, it doesn’t have a chance to move off of position.



For moving targets, we “lead” the target like sporting clays. If you can’t engage rapidly enough or transition rapidly enough, you can’t do a proper lead for any reasonable speed target.

[RancidSumo]

For moving targets, we “lead” the target like sporting clays. If you can’t engage rapidly enough or transition rapidly enough, you can’t do a proper lead for any reasonable speed target.

Not really related to most of your post, but this line jumped out at me. When I shoot clays, I (and many other shooters - I obviously didn't invent this) do not really lead the target. Instead, they are shot, depending on speed and distance, aiming directly at some edge of the target or, for fast crossing clays, you match speed at the leading edge and pull away just before the shot. The idea here is that it is pretty difficult to actually measure lead - you have to look at three different things at the same time.

I haven't spent enough time shooting moving targets with a pistol or a rifle to know if any of that makes sense outside of the shotgun world, but it would be interesting to test or to hear from someone who has tried it. I don't know why it would be any different.

[JCN]

Not really related to most of your post, but this line jumped out at me. When I shoot clays, I (and many other shooters - I obviously didn't invent this) do not really lead the target. Instead, they are shot, depending on speed and distance, aiming directly at some edge of the target or, for fast crossing clays, you match speed at the leading edge and pull away just before the shot. The idea here is that it is pretty difficult to actually measure lead - you have to look at three different things at the same time.

I haven't spent enough time shooting moving targets with a pistol or a rifle to know if any of that makes sense outside of the shotgun world, but it would be interesting to test or to hear from someone who has tried it. I don't know why it would be any different.

That’s what I meant by leading too, to clarify.

[RancidSumo]

That’s what I meant by leading too, to clarify.

Got it - makes sense. Only moving target I've shot is a Texas star and I've never shot it at any distance that requires much thought on the speed.

[JCN]

Got it - makes sense. Only moving target I've shot is a Texas star and I've never shot it at any distance that requires much thought on the speed.

At the end of this video, watch the swinger. I did it for practice and outlined the A zone for vision. I aimed at the line of the leading edge of the A zone.

[backtrail540]

I was going to run this with my p09/sro but I broke a trigger return spring on the drill prior. So I dropped a tlr1 on my friends m&p and ran it from a floodlight so I was not cold but it was an unfamiliar gun. I also didn't have the correct target so I ran it on the 8" circle of a rangemaster target and used the 4" headbox.

5" m&p core (ported, crimson trace dot that came on the gun, tlr1 to work in the floodlight)
concealed in a phlster floodlight on an enigma


Total points - 97 (dropped two at 7 and 1 at 10, all within an inch of the 8" circle so they are worth 4 points I believe)

Total time - 14.40

Index - 6.73

Final score - 134.6 (6.73x20)

String 1 - 2.49 clean (20 points) Fouled the draw a touch. Writing it off to a new gun from what I had been using all day.



String 2 - 1.00 (5 points) clean Struggled a touch to find the dot. Smaller window and slightly different index from my current user.



String 3 - .99 clean (5 points)



String 4 - 1.91 clean (15 points)



String 5 - 2.46 clean (15 points) my support hand grip was awful. loose and the dot tracked accordingly.



String 6 - 2.73 dropped 2 just outside the 8" circle (18 points assuming the next circle woul've been a 10" as all misses were within an inch of the 8")



String 7 - 2.83 dropped 1 outside the 8" circle (19 points as the one dropped was within the 10" area)

[MVS]

I wasn't going to list mine because of the terrible one handed strings, but you shamed me into it.

Sig 365XL w/507k, AIWB under t shirt.
2.86, .71, .75, 2.63, 3.02, 3.32, 3.69
Score 118

Quoting myself to say I ran this first thing in my session tonight with my range/IDPA gear. My draws aren't much faster but most of the rest is.

Walther Q5 SF/SRO OWB holster with vest as concealment

2.43, .71, .60, 1.63, 2.42, 2.74, 3.23
99 points Score 144

[1Rangemaster]

…just because I stumbled back across it while searching for the Rangemaster Core Skills test.

Shot it at lunch on indoor range illuminated with my personal G43X with a green EPS Carry and a TLR7Sub mounted. It’s a quick 20 rounds and I had not shot for a few days. Cold run, unconcealed out of a JMCK IWB-great gear.
Factored out to a score of 136, which was gratifying to me. Nice short evaluation; without a reload it may be more realistic in a “civilian carry” context. Reportedly, emergency loads are exceedingly rare in those situations. One could also comment that support hand only shooting is too, but I think there is a practice/training benefit with those.
@Tom Givens - thanks again.

[1Rangemaster]

Adding(which I can't or the phone can't) to edit:
Strings: 3.39, 1.03, 1.00, 2.00, 2.49, 3.28 &3.49 w/100 points. Factors out to 145.88/146.

On further thought, I appreciate the single head shots from ready; see that as a stopping shot(s) after a "failure" of the first 4 and encourages precision. Claude Werner and I had an email discussion with him using the term "anchoring", for example, rather than "failure drill", i.e., 2 body, 1 head. His contention is that the drill is a little unrealistic, and thinking about how Cooper wrote about it, he has a point; deliver two rapid, centered shots, pause, then follow up if necessary. LAPD Bonus course does this with turning targets.
Be that as it may, I'll run again soon with concealment, just to see differences.

[1Rangemaster]

...ok. Friday afternoons can sometimes be quiet around here, so ran identical gear under a fleece vest, "cold", no warmup. Factored out to a 114. Times within .20 of each other, but I bobbled a couple of draws and dropped 4 points total trying to speed up. So, concealment dry practice in my near future.
Given our discussion of Standards in another thread this one seems to be a candidate.