The Type R is absolutely on my radar, the bastards seem stuck at $40k+ right now, though. The Stinger looks great, but it depends on how willing I am to give up the manual trans when the decision comes. I'm not familiar with the Lexus, but I'll look into it (same comment on transmission as Stinger).Originally Posted by PearTree
I'm not needing absolutely ironclad reliability. We can get by on one car just fine for a while if something comes up, but I don't want constant trips to the shop.
My very first car was a 1985 BMW 535i. A 15 year old 535i...I think it's fair to say I've always had a thing for BMWs.
Yet, today I'd steer clear of anything after the E46 chassis for the 3 series if you're not looking at a brand new car. I came to this not just by looking at ratings/stats/reviews, but also by talking to people like @JRB. For the first 3 years they tend to be okay, but they really do go down the shitter after 3 years and maintenance/repairs are very expensive as they make them unnecessarily laborious to work on. No shit, there's a growing number of shops that won't even work on any BMW made in the last 15 years because they take up so much shop time, which deprives them of being able to serve the rest of their customer base.
If you want a BMW more than 3 years old but want it to be reliable, get a 2-series which seems to do better than the 3-series with reliability.
My suggestions for an alternative given your budget, wants and family situation would be a Mazda CX-30 Turbo or a 2015-2016 Porsche Macan; in this day and age, sedans are for the birds. Porsches are actually very reliable cars, regardless of the "but they're German!" claims. Expensive to repair when something breaks, but they're so reliable that they're the only manufacturer I know of which will not only encourage you to track your car, but then take it in and still CPO warranty it when its 8 years old. Yes, that's right, you can buy a 2015 Porsche Macan with a CPO warranty to give you comfort of mind for the next two years if you're uneasy about buying it because of the "bUt iTz JURRmaN!" crowd.
JMO.
"Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer
If you're going to buy a German car, buy a Porsche. @TGS is exactly right about Porsche's support and while their maintenance is "interesting" at times, they're overwhelmingly solid cars, except for the 'known issues' in a given model which is usually one or two things; like the IMS bearing issue in the 996's, for instance. Easily addressed, expensive parts and consumables but they're supported well. You can always find a Porsche shop.
Porsche cars also have consistently the very best steering feel on the planet for their respective classes. Prices are on the rise now with older cars, but a 996TT or 997.1 TT are both fantastic values for the money spent, and can generally be trusted as a reliable car. Plus it's a fucking twin turbo 911, so it'll still be cool even if its sitting needing maintenance and the kids are bitching about climbing into the back seat996TT's can still be found in the 40k range which again is a massive bargain. The worst thing about Porsches, honestly, are the snooty khaki-shorts visor-wearing tall-socks-new-balance pinky-up sanctimonious twats that infect local Porsche clubs. Same problem with Corvette people, really, just swap out jean shorts and dollar store aviators for the khakis and ray-bans.
911's aside, the Cayenne Turbo and Macan Turbo models can be had for surprisingly good prices at times, and as TGS said, CPO warranties are impressive from Porsche.
BMW on the other hand have spent the past 15 years becoming the masters of making everything that holds coolant out of recycled water bottles, and making their wiring is made out of sauerkraut or something. If you're interested in any BMW made after 2010 I'd lease it and only lease it. Older cars vary wildly based on maintenance, storage, and ownership history. E36 and E46 M3 hardtops with the three-pedal manual are fantastic cars and generally not turds if they're still in good shape. An E46 M3 SMG car can be converted to a 3-pedal 6MT with some ancillary parts as the gearboxes themselves are the same, you just get rid of the SMG stuff and put a normal shifter, clutch, and clutch pedal into it and convince the German ECU (called a DME in BMW speak) that all is just fine and to stop worrying about the SMG.
E39 M5's are truly a special car and possibly my favorite US delivered BMW (My #1 being a Euro market '95 M3 CSL I got to drive, that car deserves its holy status -but the E30 M3's are overrated as hell)
I've done a timing chain job on an E39 M5 among other maintenance, and holy shit was that a lot of work for what it was. Great car, miserable to maintain.
Any of the V10 M5/M6's just run away, the engines love to rod knock anywhere from 40k to 80k miles and there's no telling if one is 'good' or a time bomb. E90/E92 M3's aren't too bad with a 6MT, but I'll be honest, aside from the BMW's ~8k rev limiter music I enjoy a track-package S550 5.0L Mustang GT a lot more and you'd be surprised at how big the Mustang's back seats are.
If it's not an //M car or at least an //M sport package car, don't even fucking bother with BMW, as there's nothing special about their ho-hum offerings that can't be matched in comfort and refinement by other brands, only with superior reliability in all aspects.
In addition to the Civic Type R, WRX, Kia Stinger GT, and Macan/Cayenne - also consider an Infiniti Q50 Red Sport.
But the only flavor to get is an AWD model *without* the DAS drive-by-wire steering, and that will take some hunting to find. The engine is a 3.0L little brother of an R35 GT-R engine. The 7spd trans is strong and one of the least annoying automatics I've ever driven. The Red Sport is rated at 400hp and comes with decent Akebono 4-pot monoblock calipers and forged 19in wheels.
The steering is definitely not a German car - but be sure the run flats are matching *and* mounted the correct direction before giving up on it, because that's been a problem with many Q50's suffering from darty/weird feeling steering.
Lexus IS350's are great as well, but a little ho-hum on the HP front. A used IS-F or GS-F would be a fantastic option as well, but those are getting very hard to find and few still have warranty coverage.
If you can find one, a 2015-2017 Chevy SS sedan is simply phenomenal as a muscle sedan - it's a 6.2L LS3 powered Holden Commodore wearing Chevy badges.
Cadillac CTS-V's and ATS-V's are also worth a look if you haven't considered them too. The downside being that 6MT examples of any are rare and command a premium.
A very high ranking executive of a German automaker flat out told me over dinner that he would never own any of his country's vehicles out of warranty. In my experience with friends and colleagues who own German vehicles as well as seeing the requirements and how they drive the designs, I would never spend a dime of someone else's money to acquire any used German vehicle.
And I admit I love to drive the new BMW 5-series and a few of the Porsche models. I just drive someone else's vehicle and let them deal with the issues.
All my bad ideas involving used BMWs include gutted interior and someone else's engine. And don't even bother trying that with anything newer than an E46 unless you just want to treat it as a generic unibody tube frame and run it as a ground-up LSx swap with most of the original convenience features left behind.
.
-----------------------------------------
Not another dime.
Top Gear did a cheap car challenge where all 3 wound up buying used BMW 325i convertibles in about the same age range, and none were in particularly good shape (Jezza's brakes didn't work, Hammond's had a janky aftermarket alarm & poo in his).
It's on Series 16, ep 4.
"You win 100% of the fights you avoid. If you're not there when it happens, you don't lose." - William Aprill
"I've owned a guitar for 31 years and that sure hasn't made me a musician, let alone an expert. It's made me a guy who owns a guitar."- BBI
I'll go against the grain here and say I've had good luck with BMW. I drove a 2008 manual 335 for a few years and it was a great car. Only issue I had was a water pump that needed replaced and a slow valve cover gasket oil leak. Would definitely buy again.
Currently drive a 2013 M5 and have had 0 issues in the years I've owned it. Even though the M5 would blow the doors off my 335, I frequently miss that car. With the manual it was a lot of fun to drive around town.
ETA: Just remembered - I did actually have to change a coil on the M5 and I had to replace a couple of them on the 335. Cheap and easy fix.
Last edited by RancidSumo; 08-03-2021 at 06:30 PM.
Ooo. Chevy SS would be a good time. No miles behind the wheel so not sure how the ride would be versus a german chassis.
I would shop around, even going as far as looking nationwide for the best deal if you already test drove the type r and like it. These days I don't bother going into a dealer except to pick up the vehicle, everything can be done online. And a lot of dealer's will ship the car to you for an insignificant amount extra.
The 11th gen type r is going on sale next year, the current 10th gen type r's price will drop significantly if you can wait until next year to purchase.
Another thing I haven't seen mentioned is the BMW's are pretty boring cars to drive, even the m-sport versions. Steering is numb, cornering/handling is nothing special, and while my 335i is quick it is has no soul or character. To get a fun BMW to drive you would need to step up to an m3 and that is way out of your price range.
Also another car to consider is the golf r, although you will again run into the reliability problem.
The GS-F is definitely a fun car to drive and on my short list to purchase, but with the current used market the prices they are selling for is absolutely ridiculous. The SS has the same problem, to find one with under 80k miles will cost way more than $30k, and the last time I looked there were less than 10 manuals for sale in the entire country.If you're going to buy a German car, buy a Porsche. @TGS is exactly right about Porsche's support and while their maintenance is "interesting" at times, they're overwhelmingly solid cars, except for the 'known issues' in a given model which is usually one or two things; like the IMS bearing issue in the 996's, for instance. Easily addressed, expensive parts and consumables but they're supported well. You can always find a Porsche shop.
Porsche cars also have consistently the very best steering feel on the planet for their respective classes. Prices are on the rise now with older cars, but a 996TT or 997.1 TT are both fantastic values for the money spent, and can generally be trusted as a reliable car. Plus it's a fucking twin turbo 911, so it'll still be cool even if its sitting needing maintenance and the kids are bitching about climbing into the back seat
911's aside, the Cayenne Turbo and Macan Turbo models can be had for surprisingly good prices at times, and as TGS said, CPO warranties are impressive from Porsche.
BMW on the other hand have spent the past 15 years becoming the masters of making everything that holds coolant out of recycled water bottles, and making their wiring is made out of sauerkraut or something. If you're interested in any BMW made after 2010 I'd lease it and only lease it. Older cars vary wildly based on maintenance, storage, and ownership history. E36 and E46 M3 hardtops with the three-pedal manual are fantastic cars and generally not turds if they're still in good shape. An E46 M3 SMG car can be converted to a 3-pedal 6MT with some ancillary parts as the gearboxes themselves are the same, you just get rid of the SMG stuff and put a normal shifter, clutch, and clutch pedal into it and convince the German ECU (called a DME in BMW speak) that all is just fine and to stop worrying about the SMG.
E39 M5's are truly a special car and possibly my favorite US delivered BMW (My #1 being a Euro market '95 M3 CSL I got to drive, that car deserves its holy status -but the E30 M3's are overrated as hell)
I've done a timing chain job on an E39 M5 among other maintenance, and holy shit was that a lot of work for what it was. Great car, miserable to maintain.
Any of the V10 M5/M6's just run away, the engines love to rod knock anywhere from 40k to 80k miles and there's no telling if one is 'good' or a time bomb. E90/E92 M3's aren't too bad with a 6MT, but I'll be honest, aside from the BMW's ~8k rev limiter music I enjoy a track-package S550 5.0L Mustang GT a lot more and you'd be surprised at how big the Mustang's back seats are.
If it's not an //M car or at least an //M sport package car, don't even fucking bother with BMW, as there's nothing special about their ho-hum offerings that can't be matched in comfort and refinement by other brands, only with superior reliability in all aspects.
In addition to the Civic Type R, WRX, Kia Stinger GT, and Macan/Cayenne - also consider an Infiniti Q50 Red Sport.
But the only flavor to get is an AWD model *without* the DAS drive-by-wire steering, and that will take some hunting to find. The engine is a 3.0L little brother of an R35 GT-R engine. The 7spd trans is strong and one of the least annoying automatics I've ever driven. The Red Sport is rated at 400hp and comes with decent Akebono 4-pot monoblock calipers and forged 19in wheels.
The steering is definitely not a German car - but be sure the run flats are matching *and* mounted the correct direction before giving up on it, because that's been a problem with many Q50's suffering from darty/weird feeling steering.
Lexus IS350's are great as well, but a little ho-hum on the HP front. A used IS-F or GS-F would be a fantastic option as well, but those are getting very hard to find and few still have warranty coverage.
If you can find one, a 2015-2017 Chevy SS sedan is simply phenomenal as a muscle sedan - it's a 6.2L LS3 powered Holden Commodore wearing Chevy badges.
Cadillac CTS-V's and ATS-V's are also worth a look if you haven't considered them too. The downside being that 6MT examples of any are rare and command a premium.
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