RFI: Used 3-series BMW (or similar)

[Bio]

Hey all, just before Covid, my beloved Nissan Xterra got totaled. It ended up being replaced with a hybrid RAV4 as the family people mover, which serves admirably in that role. However, our other car, a 2009 Honda Fit, was really next in line to be replaced, and will probably be replaced in a few years. It's the sport model with a manual, and it fools no one that it's a sports car, but it is pretty enjoyable to toss it around and go through the gears. Anyway, I'm eyeing a replacement, and would like to take the opportunity to upgrade to something genuinely sporty, that still fits the family of four when needed. This car would be my daily driver, but won't get a ton of miles, as I live close to work. I'm looking to get a car that is a little quick, fun to drive, and carries 4 people reasonably well. I'm not going to track it or race it. I don't need high end infotainment (or any infotainment, really).

The 3-series is sort of the archetypal practical sports sedan/coupe (depending on year), in my mind, at least. I was quite surprised that you could get mid-2010s 6 cylinder $25-30k, or a newer 4 cylinder in the same range.

For the same price range, a new car with modestly sporty pretensions would something like a Civic Si or a WRX, and of course those would have much lower cost of ownership after purchase.

My understanding is that luxury cars in general depreciate rapidly, and the German cars especially have a high maintenance cost, and this is figured into the low price of used models.

So I guess my question is 2-fold:

Given the situation outlined above, is there anything really problematic about getting a used 3-series, and what are any alternatives I should be considering?

[JohnO]

One of my co-workers is a real car guy. He cut his teeth as a mechanic before his engineering degree. He has great distain for BMW. His opinion is that BMW is a great car to lease and say goodbye to when the lease is up.

[rd62]

My experience with a used 5 series was no bueno.

Good looking, fun to drive, expensive, and horrible reliability. The absolute worst reliability and most expensive car I've ever owned.

It was a high end model (550i M Sport) with lots of cutting edge tech and bells and whistles though. Cutting edge tech and performance translated into poor reliability and high expense.

If you are looking at a pretty basic 4 cylinder 3 series you may be OK. For me, if I were to want to go back to a similar style vehicle it would probably be a sporty Lexus of some flavor.

I'd drive the shit outta one but won't own another personally for a long time, if ever.

[Maca]

One of my co-workers is a real car guy. He cut his teeth as a mechanic before his engineering degree. He has great distain for BMW. His opinion is that BMW is a great car to lease and say goodbye to when the lease is up.

100% agree with this, having owned a an M3; a 750i and most recently, a M550i. All were problematic with frequent warranty services/recalls.

I would never recommend an out of warranty present-day BMW. The 1980's/90's BMW's were built entirely differently (I owned a 1987 325 which was 100% reliable).

[Jim Watson]

My 2008 128i bottom of the line variant is not very troublesome, but the rapacious dealer got me to looking for a local mechanic.

Sometimes I wish I had bought that Accord coupe.

[Maca]

my experience was so bad, I bought a 4runner!

BTW, its awesome!

[David S.]

I spent a bunch of time researching the E36 ('90's) and E46 (early 2000's). I can't speak to anything beyond that.

I owned a pre owned E36 M3 4 door manual from '08-'12ish. Well over 100k miles on it. I absolutely loved it. It's a simple car, and I could do a fair bit of the maintenance on it myself. I intended to track it (autocross, HPDE, etc) but never got around to it.

It's a European sports car, not an Asian econobox. Set you reliability expectations accordingly. Expect 25ish MPG on mid-grade or premium gas, instead of 40+ MPG on standard gas.
It's a European sports car, not an American muscle car. Set your torque and acceleration expectations accordingly.

Based on my research,
I think the E46 is basically an E36 with a body, technology and ergonomic upgrades. Look nicer, but a little heavier.
The 8 cylinder motors in that vintage 5 and 7 series were known maintenance hogs. Stay away.
The SMG trans might be a maintenance hog too. Not sure. Do a bunch of research if you're considering that option.
The 4 cyl and 6 cyl are solid, but have some known weaknesses, particularly the cooling system.
Most could use a suspension refresh to really perform, mostly bushings.
Do a bunch of research on the SMG transmission if you're

Ownership stuff on the E36. There's a bunch of solid info buried in this thread. There's probably a similar E46 and E90 thread.

Pelican Parts is another great resource for OE and aftermarket parts. The have some well written "How To" Articles for personal maintenance.

I would definitely own one again if it made sense to my lifestyle. Given that you are looking at 15-20 year old car, I would expect the first couple years of ownership to be fairly expensive and maintenance intensive, especially if you want to make it right. There's a couple components (cooling system and control arms, IIRC. see above thread) that I would do immediately, unless you have a record of them being done.

If you can do your own work, parts aren't crazy expensive, or they weren't 10 years ago. Expect to pay a bit more for a good BMW mechanic than a general shop.

Hope this helps

[David S.]

For me, if I were to want to go back to a similar style vehicle it would probably be a sporty Lexus of some flavor.

I loved my Bimmer experience, and would do it again. . . but he's not wrong.

[RJ]

In that vein, my experience was:

2003 E46 330i ZHP 6MT

Purchased new and ran for 100K miles. I did all my own maintenance (oil, brakes, cooling system parts, fuel filter). Later in life the interior got somewhat ratty. I also had a $1,800 bill for a new MAF sensor and parts at an indy. Generally, maint costs were around $1,200 average. The cooling system is a weak spot. I treated the thermostat, accursed expansion tank, and water pump as consumables, to be replaced at 60k, period. I had an aftermarket/cheap expansion tank split on me coming out of Church one day requiring a flat bed home.

Otherwise I loved it. Strong smooth NA 6 cyl 235hp motor and 6MT was fun to drive.

2007 E91 328iT

Bought used at Carmax to Mrs. RJ could have a small wagon. Loved the space layout. We traded it in on something or other. It had early gen run flats, which were hexagonal shaped when cold (or felt like it). It had an amusing tendency to not start randomly. This was (I am pretty sure) part of a battery recall involving dissimilar metals and poor conductivity. I think it was addressed in later models.

2009 E92 M3 6MT

Bought used from a Honda dealer in Indianapolis, drove home to Atlanta. DINAN tuned. Had a surprise manufacturer's service warranty the seller did not know about. Cool. Thirsty V8; nothing special happened until above 5,000 RPM, but hoo boy after that hold on to your socks. Heavy. The black interior got very hot in Georgia sun. The gas tank was 3 series small, meaning fill ups happened every 150-180 miles, kind of a pain. Never gave me any issues for a couple years ownership.

2011 E92 328i 6MT

Ordered and bought new. Picked up at the BMW Performance Center in Spartanburg. Loved everything about it. Unfortunately I ordered this "Bone" interior (ivory) which was kinda not the right look for me. Should have stuck with black. Gave me no issues.

[PearTree]

I own a 2014 335i msport with 60k miles. In my three years of ownership, I have spent 5k in repairs. Like others have said, there is a reason they depreciate and are so cheap used. I don’t recommend them to anyone if the criteria is a reliable vehicle. If you are looking for a fun, good handling, quick vehicle then go for it. But reliability and cheap cost of ownership have no business being in the same sentence as a BMW.

Edit: Kia stinger, civic type R, Lexus is350 would be more reliable alternatives I would choose.