RFI: Used 3-series BMW (or similar)

[Bio]

To clarify,

1.) I'm not wedded to the manual, it's just what I'm used to, and I don't have experience with any of the good new automatics.

2.) I'm in no rush, it's not even going to happen for a year or two. I'm doing research now because it's fun, and if something happens to the current car, I'll have some of the research done.

3.) The price range I listed before is flexible. If there's something really good for 35 or so that checks all the boxes, I'll certainly consider it.

Thanks for the advice, all. I'd heard BMWs had issues, but I don't think I realized they were quite as bad as many people here have experienced.

[Mark D]

Not to pile on, but one more data point...

For several years, I was in relationship with a German girl who had moved to the US. She had a deep, enduring fondness for German cars, and had imported her late-model 3-series into the US when she moved here. I can't recall the model, but it had a 6 cylinder diesel and was nicely appointed.

I was pleasantly surprised with the car - it was very quick, sporty, and got great mileage. Comfortable too - I did several 500 - 600 mile days without issue.

The charm wore off once the car was out of warranty. We spent a lot of time and money at the local dealerships. Everything was super expensive and time consuming. I reached the limit of my patience when the car needed a new headlight, and they told us it would cost $1200 and the part would be here in 4 weeks, because it had to come from Germany.

No thanks. I'll drive American or Japanese. Or maaaaybe a Porsche, if I really feel the need for an expensive hobby.

[Joe in PNG]

I'm reminded of an article I once read in a UK motoring magazine discussing older, unfashionable supercars of the time- various Ferrari automatics, odd Astons, and so on.

And it's the same problem that affects older luxury cars too- you may have bought it used for $10,000*, but it was worth $85,000* or so, and all the parts, specialist service, and so on are geared towards the $85,000* car market.



*adjust as needed

[RJ]

To clarify,

1.) I'm not wedded to the manual, it's just what I'm used to, and I don't have experience with any of the good new automatics.

2.) I'm in no rush, it's not even going to happen for a year or two. I'm doing research now because it's fun, and if something happens to the current car, I'll have some of the research done.

3.) The price range I listed before is flexible. If there's something really good for 35 or so that checks all the boxes, I'll certainly consider it.

Thanks for the advice, all. I'd heard BMWs had issues, but I don't think I realized they were quite as bad as many people here have experienced.

Crossing forum lines, but this recent thread in the 991 forum on Rennlist might give you some ideas.

https://rennlist.com/forums/991/1261...under-30k.html

[RoyGBiv]

20+ years ago I owned a 535 5-speed, straight 6. Absolutely LOVED driving that car. It never failed to run well, but, something was always broken on it. Funniest one was when the electrically-height-adjustable drivers headrest adjusted all the way out the top of the seat. Required a tech to get it reinstalled. Seemed like the car was always in the shop for the year plus that I owned it. I would never own another BMW auto that's not under factory warranty. I sold mine and bought a 4Runner.

When I think of sporty and fun to drive today, with a manual option, I'd add the Golf (maybe a bit small), Jetta and Passat (not sure about sticks in those) to the list for consideration.

[JRB]

I'm reminded of an article I once read in a UK motoring magazine discussing older, unfashionable supercars of the time- various Ferrari automatics, odd Astons, and so on.

And it's the same problem that affects older luxury cars too- you may have bought it used for $10,000*, but it was worth $85,000* or so, and all the parts, specialist service, and so on are geared towards the $85,000* car market.



*adjust as needed

I came This || close to buying a 2005 Mercedes S600 for $9500. Twin turbo V12, mountains of torque, absolutely fantastic engine that was impossible not to love.
Then I read about rebuilding the ABC hydraulic suspension, cringed, and planned on a coil spring conversion. Then I read about spending $1500-3k rebuilding the MOSFETs in the coil packs and cringed again, figuring I'd just 'buy once cry once'.
Then I read about other persistent electrical gremlins and their various manifestations, to include windows that roll themselves down randomly, gauge/headlight issues, etc. And realized I didn't want to spend $10k a year at a Mercedes dealer for maintenance that was impossible to do myself due to lack of access to Mercedes service tools and computer/body control software.

[RJ]

20+ years ago I owned a 535 5-speed, straight 6. Absolutely LOVED driving that car.

I gotta say, your moves were pretty good.

[RJ]

I sold mine and bought a 4Runner.

Just wanted to add an on topic post. In addition to the three series models I outlined above, I've owned an SUV (E83), as well as my mom's 2002s/320i's. My first ticket was in her beige 2002, coming back from a function in Fairfax County somewhere on Backlick Road, downshifting from 3 to 2 and power sliding through the yellow light in front of the deputy. He was not impressed with how I held the turn all the way through on the power, unfortunately. That $236 (I remember the number) citation stung pretty badly as a part-time working high school student, but paled in comparison to having to tell my parents.

Anyway, on BMWs, expanding a bit on the theme of former ownership, used to be that all the mechanical foibles and electrical gremlins you'd get on a bimmer were worth it, because there were few options that could bring the driving experience in a 4D sedan/MT. You could put up with the troubles because the driving was so much fun.

Somewhere around the E9x series, it seems to me BMW made a conscious decision to appeal more to mass market, white, nauga, three year lease buyer, and less and less to driving enthusiasts. I say this as an ex-super mod on Bimmerfest, which I've been a member of since 2003 when I bought my E46. I've watched countless posts over the years on that site. I still drive a German car, but there's nothing in their current line up that appeals to me. The last opportunity for BMW for us was for Mrs. RJ, who test drove and seriously considered a new 5 series. In the end she went towards a Lexus SUV and could not be happier.

I suspect BMW doesn't care, since by all accounts they are making plenty of money in the export business, and have a good foothold in expanding markets in e.g. Asia specifically China. All about the Benjamins, I guess. Personally, I think the new M4 looks like an angry beaver. I have no clue who in the design team thought that was a good idea.

I've dabbled with the idea of a used E46, convertible, 6MT, as a run around car, but I need a 20 year old BMW like a hole in the head. You do seem them frequently here in Sarasota, as for whatever reason it is a popular car with retirees.

[RevolverRob]

In your position, my choice would be a Civic Type-R - or if the price was a bit much a Civic SI.

I would not consider anything from any German automaker that didn't start the P and end with 'orsche'.

No VWs, no BM-dubs, no Mercedes, none of them. Since you need to haul 4-people regularly and Panameras still really aren't really down the list on used prices, the answer to your question is Japanese.

And the answer in Japanese is Civic Type-R or Civic SI.

If you can stand not having 3-pedals (I cannot in a car meant to be driven hard) - then you can look at the Mazda 3 Turbo, which is a 'spiritual' successor to the Mazdaspeed 3, but isn't, because it doesn't have 3-pedals or the rough-around-the-edges'ness to it and instead is very 'refined'. I find it barf inducingly boring.

I wouldn't buy a WRX, Subaru ranks only above Mitsubishi and Nissan in terms of reliability for Japanese marques. Far behind Honda, Toyota, and Mazda.

[olstyn]

Speaking for the other species of German sedan with sporting pretensions (right or wrong, I tend to think of Mercedes as more strictly luxury-oriented), I've owned a couple of Audis, and the story there is largely similar.

My '02 A4 1.8T Quattro 5MT (owned from 2009-2016, 62K-155K miles) was comfortable and great to drive, and reliable in that it never stranded me anywhere, but it was perpetually in need of $500 for this, $250 for that, or $800 for the other thing. I kept thinking I wanted to put a software tune on it because an extra 40 HP would have been nice, but it was hard to justify when there was always something to fix, or some $$$ scheduled maintenance upcoming. The timing belt was particularly punishing, expense-wise. My current '15 A5 2.0 Quattro 6MT has given me zero trouble so far, and thankfully has a timing chain rather than a timing belt, but it came to me as a one-owner car with ~41K miles on it and I've only put on a little over 3K miles so far, so time will tell.

Ultimately, I believe Audi's quality standards have gone up since '02, but they definitely have their foibles, and both BMW and Audi are cars for people who love cars and don't mind paying to maintain them - cheap transportation appliances they are not.