May I humbly recommend a Herm Springer prong collar and two videos:
https://leerburg.com/training-with-food.htm
https://leerburg.com/LeashSkillswithEllisDVD.htm
The videos are pricey, and you can stream them for less. I have both and recommend them to pet owners all the time.
They are great for dogs that like food and like to pull on the leash...
pat
Absolutely thank you for your recommendation I actually did pick a prong collar up just recently. Working great so far.Originally Posted by UNM1136
I have saved those links and will use them asap, definitely something I want to work on with her. Thanks again.
Edit: I see I need to order the DVD and will do so.
“Archer not arrow. No such thing as a perfect pistol. Until you commit to being a better archer, you’ll keep hunting for a better arrow.”
-JCN
Great looking girl! I saw you mention the Herm Springer collar. Keep in mind you can add additional links if the collar becomes too small. Also you may want to add what some refer to as a Dominate Dog Collar, basically a backup if the Prong collar fails. https://leerburg.com/746.htm?set=1. FYI.
I have never had a prong collar come apart except for the time my wife put it on the dog incorrectly. The links were not assembled properly. I worked with a trainer who would make a field expedient back up collar with 550 cord for his clients.
You said that you have a deposit down for a male in a future litter. I did the same when my female GSD was a little over 1 year old. Guess what it isn't 2X the work, it's like kids, it's 4X the work. But I love every minute of it!
I'm using "The Boss" from Educator Collars. https://www.educatorcollars.com/educ...-the-boss.html I have a 2nd collar and the remote can be programed to control 2 collars. I use the collar as a off leash backup. I let the dogs free run in the woods but with the e-collar I have recourse if they won't respond to a recall. They have finally learned to stay away from skunks. They will go after deer but will come on recall. Where they absolutely lose control are coyotes. We spotted a coyote last night our before bed neighborhood patrol. On a scale of 1 to 10 they were jacked up to about a 199. They were both pulling into their prong collars to where I needed to give them corrections with the e-collars or my arm was going to get torn out of the socket. Combined they have about 20 pounds on me and 8 legs vs. my 2. I learned long ago never take them out together on flat collars. I got launched through the air and dragged till they got to what they were after.
I never used a Dominant Dog collar, but I believe it is a Leerburg invention, and like it in theory. For a large dog who can be hard headed I would use one. My mal's dog aggressivness recently ramped up, and I don't know why. I may have to go old school with the e-collar and do some "crittering" to teach him how to ignore other dogs.
Anyway the food video focuses on building a relationship with the dog using food and clear, consistent communication to teach. Luring and shaping behaviors are gone over.
The Leash Skills video was one that I initially rolled my eyes at, but was very impressed with. It teaches using a prong collar and leash to communicate with the dog. Literally you are trying to teach the dog to follow leash pressure, and eventually the dog associates the input from the prong collar as "Hey! Pay attention! Dad wants to tell us something."
The Power of Playing Tug with your Dog is another good one. I also have Training the Recall and Training the Retrieve.
pat
Last edited by UNM1136; 12-07-2021 at 08:06 AM.
Our Schutzhund club was pretty diverse. Mastiffs, Pits, and Jagdterriers, and the usual GSDs, Mals, and Dutchies.
pat
I have a few of the Michael Ellis videos and think they are a great resource. I would love the opportunity to train with him in person.
One of the things I did with my dogs from day one was crate them at night next to my bed. I even put something under the crate to raise it so they had a direct eyeline to me at night. I believe this both comforted them and built a tight bond. To this day my wife is jealous of how the dogs ignore her when I am around. My wife will say, "look at that, you move and their eyes follow you everywhere."
Right from the beginning I did a lot of recall work with the dogs (and still do) with both food rewards and plenty of praise. I want them to know that coming to me is always a good and pleasurable thing. People have seen my dogs go after something and reverse course on a dime and come to me when I call them. Those folks will often comment on how well trained they are. However I will always equate the dogs to lightning in a jar and say you never know when the lid may pop off. As I mentioned in a previous post coyotes and also fox really jack the dogs up to the point that they appear to lose control. I really wonder what it is or if it has something to do with being the same species?
I worked with a group and trainer who were very GSD centric. The trainer was the local go to guy for serious people. He is a former Air Force dog handler and more than 50% of his clients have GSDs. Saturday mornings he holds a Distraction Class where all his clients who have achieved the proper control can attend. The class is held near a relatively busy road and the trainer will frequently say the people driving by only see the German Shepherd Dogs. He handled GSDs in the Air Force, breed them and has a GSD (IGP2 titled).
I thought it interesting when I first got involved with this group that when ever a Belgian Mal was mentioned there was a collective sigh from the GSD people. Many GSD people apparently think the Mal is undesirable? I would not mind having a high energy Mal. I have a buddy with 2 outstanding Mals along with a Brittany & a Lab. They all are getting along great thanks to his diligence. P.S. Those Mals are machines! He is one of the safest individuals on the planet.
I fell for the mal rap for a while, too. Just like inbreeding GSDs causes hip problems, mals get nuerological issues. And frequently the nerviness is mistaken for high drive.
A lot of mal guys look for those traits. My mal was picked by me from the litter. He was the runt, and I gave him his first round of puppy shots. All the other pups shied away after I jabbed them, and he had no attitude change. He tried to climb my shirt and lick my face. I started working with the litter at 3 weeks old, before their eyes opened, doing environmental desensitization.
At 8 weeks he came home to rules to live by in the hose. At two he was as laid back as my buddies 6 year old GSD working dog.
Our club training director is very GSD oriented, using his working dog to compete in the Bundesieger(?sp?)
But he likes good dogs. He had a mal until an agency down south ruined their dog and needed one ASAP.
And to answer your question about coyotes, it could be anything. Every dog has some wierd "flip the f- out switch" that gets hit. We washed out a promising 13 month old GSD bitch because shiny floors freaked her out. My dog gets so driven he has to hump protection equipment on the out. For a long time he had to be lifted off the sleeve. One dog laid flat on his belly to pee.
If you have a place where you can count on seeing coyotes (or a dog park where a friend has a coyote looking dog on one side of the fence) you can try crittering. It is old school, can be abusive if done wrong, and is what I consider a last resort. Walk the dog on lead and when they see the coyote any reaction of more than the eyes results in a solid, interrupting shock. 100 yards away is a good distance to start at. If you start too close the dog may associate the correction with the other animal hurting him. See coyote, head turns, strong zap. 90 yards away, see animal, any reaction beyond eyeballs gets a strong zap. Closer and closer. Done properly the dog will notice without reacting.
This is not how I use an Ecollar 95+% of the time.
I would love to have my dog have this much self control...
pat
Last edited by UNM1136; 12-07-2021 at 10:48 AM.
My friends Mals are both dogs that were returned to the breeder. The first a male was too much to handle for the initial owner. My buddy squared that dog away. Initially everyone in his training group was deathly afraid of the dog. They thought him a lose cannon with a tremendously powerful bite. This while working with a trainer who breeds Mals, Dutch Shepherds and trains NYPD K-9 and his group.
The trainer was very impressed with how my friend brought his Mal around to controllable dog. One day a year or so into working with his trainer my buddy was asked by the trainer/breeder to help with a dog. Eight months earlier the trainer had sold the pick of a special litter (two top KNPV titled Mals chosen and specifically breed together) to an individual who promised to do right by this female dog. The owner neglected the dog. She lived in a crate and was never housebroken trained or cared for. The dog came back to the trainer/breeder.
My buddy was approached by the trainer told about this poor neglected dog on a weekend open class with a group. The trainer asked my buddy if he would work the dog some that day because he was impressed with how he turned his Mal around. After working with this lovely female Mal the trainer said to my friend, "if you want her she is yours!". He couldn't say no and that's how he has two Mals now. And he has turned that girl into a great dog. It was lots of work due to the neglect the poor girl experienced. Plus the trainer/breeder told him if you take her and give her a good home he can come for all the training gratis. Given the pedigree that dog has she must have sold for a pretty penny.
I do the dog park thing just like Ellis. I love that video and that's what gave me the idea. My results are not quite on the Ellis level.
Regarding the crittering. The dog park or appearances just won't cut it. It is 100% scent! Many times I will spot the coyote because my eyes are 3-4 feet higher or the dogs are not looking that way. But when they detect the scent, Holy Cow!! It's off to the races. It has happened enough times where I saw the Yote & they didn't. Then they smelled it and that's how I know. I'll see a coyote on the edge of a field in the distance. The dogs don't have a line of sight to it. But I know depending upon the wind direction what is about to happen. Their noses go up as does the hair on their spine. You can see the direction finder calculating. Then they are after the scent.
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