Old Bakersfield PD qual

[JCN]

@JCN: minor point-I shot the first run with a GLS paddle holster- noted that in a later post.
If you’re making the point that I need to improve my draw speed…well, yes, I believe everyone can, and I’m working on it. Your point of not adding complexity to the eval is taken. You are obviously an excellent technical shooter, and I appreciate your remote coaching.
During my run this morning, I did see the dot on the 10 foot run(and subsequent ones)-and called the shots. Technically speaking, it’s not a “fail”; the Bakersfield description give a penalty for overtime shots. Minus one point for one tenth of a second over the par. My latest run reflects that. So, three-tenths for minus 3 points, plus 4 hits out of the circle=7 points, or a 93 for today. The first score reflects the designers original intent also.
BTW, your run with the snub where you have multiple failures to fire would be called “dead man gun(s)” or “runs”. Hopefully, you are not carrying that setup in the real world.
I’ll be running this with a Level 3 retention rig in the near future after I work on my presentation, index and sight acquisition.

So for draw speed, there are two components to it. The first part is the hand speed and grip and the second part is the index to presentation and the rough accuracy of that presentation. Most people who struggle with speed have some easy low hanging fruit by upping the intensity and aggression in which they establish their grip.

I didn’t mean fail as in failure of the test. I meant failure of you hitting your goal. You’re still leagues above average.

The snub was illustrative of sights and grip to show fundamentals are fundamental. The ammo is this weird Zinc 380 I thought would be a good idea indoors because no lead. But it’s terrible. That particular gun is in the experimental developmental phase. I normally use it just to exercise my trigger fingers in dry.

I think working on it with your GLS holster first and trying to get your grip and index down to the 0.8s range in dry presentation will serve you well when you add the complexity of Level 3 retention.

A level 3 adds 0.2-0.25 to my open draw. So to clear the time parameter without luck, you have to get your open index to 0.8 or so in dry. This is my level 3 efficiency technique.



When you saw the dot at the 10 foot today, was the dot not on the scoring surface when you pulled the trigger (index issue) or did the trigger press pull the dot off the scoring surface (grip and pull issue)?

Deconstructing what happened is the quickest way to solving the issue.

Most of the time by speeding up attack and presentation speed you have more time to refine and not rush the pull.

[JCN]

@1Rangemaster
@Gun Nerd

This might be a good time to bring up concealment and why I don’t like it on a test.

On an 8” target at 3 yards I have the following reliable draws:
0.6 open holster, wrists below belt to start
0.8 concealed draw, thin sweater from AIWB with fingers curled.
0.9 concealed draw, thin sweater from AIWB with hands at surrender.

To hit 7 yard USPSA A zone add an extra 0.2 or so in stabilization and sight refinement at the end of the same draw I use for 3 yards. But the basic draw and index is the same except for the end.

But if you ask me to do a concealed draw from a tighter or longer shirt, I would struggle to do it in 1.2 seconds reliably.

The issue wouldn’t be in my draw, it’d be in the concealment garment.

For people without an analytical mind practicing concealment draws, how much is the garment and how much is the draw?

The answer is easy. How fast is the draw?

Basically you need to be able to do draws that fast to have a chance at stabilizing the dot or irons to hit farther things without luck.

Here are some video data.

Open draw:


Concealed curled:


Concealed surrender Vice Card:


Concealed surrender:


If you only watch one video watch this one to the end.
Watch the close versus farther draw. Slow mo is at the end.

[jlw]

A qualification should be shot in the same gear in which one goes on duty. A plainclothes detective should be shooting quals from concealment. Uniform personnel should be shooting from duty gear.

[JCN]

A qualification should be shot in the same gear in which one goes on duty. A plainclothes detective should be shooting quals from concealment. Uniform personnel should be shooting from duty gear.

Says the guy who suggested random scoring sizes and arbitrary points differences.

None of us are on the Bakersfield PD right?

You don’t carry a revolver on duty, right?

But you were going to run it with one, right?

Get what I’m putting down? We here are using it for something different than our work duty qual.

And I totally disagree about your qual statement.

For official purposes should qualify with the gear that is described in the qualification standard IMO.

Doesn’t matter if they are currently plainclothes and it’s a duty standard. They should qualify with the gear they are standard mandated.

They should KNOW AND PRACTICE with the gear they have to carry on particular assignments and know how much time they give up for each scenario.

But they absolutely shouldn’t have to qualify with a 380 bodyguard hidden on their ankle.

[jlw]

I qualify with a revolver each year and carry one when in Class A uniform for ceremonial functions (except I haven't gone to get one of the new Class A uniforms yet).

GA POST, the FBI, and FLETC have all deemed me worthy to sign off on quals. Quals should be shot in the manner in which the person goes on duty.

[JCN]

I qualify with a revolver each year and carry one when in Class A uniform for ceremonial functions (except I haven't gone to get one of the new Class A uniforms yet).

GA POST, the FBI, and FLETC have all deemed me worthy to sign off on quals. Quals should be shot in the manner in which the person goes on duty.

Do you qualify with semi auto standard or revolver standards? I’m assuming semiauto standards from what you suggested before.

Do the official qualification documentation materials say that about gear? Asking because I don’t know.

Would love to hear the actual wording and would love your opinion on how much gaming goes on for quals versus what people actually wear plainclothes and concealed.

[JCN]

I guess with the entry level FBI and FLETC quals they’re so low standard for qualification that you could pass it from an ankle holster. I can pass the 50 round FBI course in within time with 50/50 score with an 8 shot revolver including reload strings.

[JCN]

There is a huge difference between the remedial FBI and FLETC standards

And the Bakersfield PD qualification.

It’s like the difference between a C class shooter and an A class shooter.

There’s tons of slop in the remedial qualification times.

But with a more stringent time frame, the Bakersfield is tighter to make 100 pts and there isn’t a lot of slop there.

If testing a difficult test, it should be run as described for apples to apples testing.

Would be interested to know what kinds of equipment differences were mandated for this.

[Wheeler]

I guess with the entry level FBI and FLETC quals they’re so low standard for qualification that you could pass it from an ankle holster. I can pass the 50 round FBI course in within time with 50/50 score with an 8 shot revolver including reload strings.

What brand ankle holster do you use with that N frame?

[JCN]

What brand ankle holster do you use with that N frame?

Haha. I used an AIWB holster when I ran it.

It would definitely cost me points having to draw from ankle but I’m sure I could still make 80% on the test. Have you run it? It’s pretty ridiculous. I ran it once with a pair of NAA Minis.