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Thread: Old Bakersfield PD qual

  1. #41
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    Snubby pass 86 points


  2. #42
    I shot this in the morning from concealment-a vest over a JMCK IWB holster, reload mag in a Safariland paddle pouch. G45 MOS with ACRO mounted, shooting 124 ball ammo.
    1.61, 2.17, 5.56 and a 2.71. Just out of the circle with 4, but still in the box(I just used a pencil over a target). I’m going to add 3 points for the overtime, for a score of 93. Of minor interest the down one hits were up close; I’m just hammering the trigger.
    I will do a little dry fire with the Level 3 rig, and see how that goes. Nice little veal.
    One comment on the leather rig: the mag pouches look open, which would fit for that point in time and place.

  3. #43
    Looked again- pouches have flaps(I think). There were double open pouches, though, “back in the day”.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Nerd View Post
    It’s a very fair point. I guess the question is whether anything else that’s trained needs to be tested, and to what extent the test needs to provide additional reps to reinforce training. A typical pass/fail qual course doesn’t provide much training, while performing 100 one-shot draws isn’t really a test. This course is a little bit of both, and I was thinking about what absolute minimum additions might enhance the training value without too much dilution.
    So here’s the example.
    @1Rangemaster if you can keep an open mind and suppress the ego’s desire to avoid criticism.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Rangemaster View Post
    I bit. Tried it with a GLOCK Model 45 MOS with an ACRO mounted, out of an ALS holster unconcealed. Winchester 147 flat point fmj ammo.
    1.45, 1.84, 6.00(I swear!), 3.41. Two hits just out, and one a little right at 20 yards. So, 97 points if I’m arguing like a competitor, or 94 points.
    It’s sporty! I look forward to working a Level 3 holster through this, and concealed. Definitely going on the drill list; low round count, realistic and a good accuracy standard. With the 5 yard roundup, the “Test”, Hackathorn’s 5 round “Wizard”, etc., we have some efficient evaluations.
    Here’s another one: 8” plates at 25 yards. One round to hit in 2.5 seconds.
    Paging @Mr.White…
    When it was tried with an ALS holster you said you shot it on index without seeing the sights.

    When complexity was added with concealment…
    Quote Originally Posted by 1Rangemaster View Post
    I shot this in the morning from concealment-a vest over a JMCK IWB holster, reload mag in a Safariland paddle pouch. G45 MOS with ACRO mounted, shooting 124 ball ammo.
    1.61, 2.17, 5.56 and a 2.71. Just out of the circle with 4, but still in the box(I just used a pencil over a target). I’m going to add 3 points for the overtime, for a score of 93. Of minor interest the down one hits were up close; I’m just hammering the trigger.
    Predictably now the time is a fail and still not seeing the sights. Because they were misses.

    @Gun Nerd this is the point, if you can’t reliably do it in the simple format you can’t do it with added complexity.

    If we had started with complexity, you couldn’t tell if the concealment stunk or the draw.

    Here you have your answer cleanly and if can put aside the ego, it’s pretty clear.

    There’s no point in trying different permutations until either the hand speed improves or the index does.

    At that distance and speed you can and should be able to either get the gun to see the sights or have a developed index.

    So the solution isn’t running it multiple times with different gear, it’s figuring out and working on where the core weakness is.

    That’s why I demonstrate with snubbies and micro guns. It shows that index and speed matter for everything.

  5. #45
    Member
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    Jun 2019
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    out of here

    ALS/SLS

    Adding complexity just adds complexity. This was with ALS/SLS about a year ago with iron sights at about the same distance and scoring zone.

    Rifle to pistol transition was 1.5s with all retention hoods and tabs in place.



    Basically if you can’t do a 0.9s open holster draw to sight picture on this distance target it will need work in order to hit the par time in any way shape or form with other layers added to make a 1.3 second draw and 0.20 split to make the time.

    But what Bakersfield showed us is that improving those skills matter in the real world and the hit factor type scoring they felt translated well to actual combat per the article.

  6. #46
    @JCN: minor point-I shot the first run with a GLS paddle holster- noted that in a later post.
    If you’re making the point that I need to improve my draw speed…well, yes, I believe everyone can, and I’m working on it. Your point of not adding complexity to the eval is taken. You are obviously an excellent technical shooter, and I appreciate your remote coaching.
    During my run this morning, I did see the dot on the 10 foot run(and subsequent ones)-and called the shots. Technically speaking, it’s not a “fail”; the Bakersfield description give a penalty for overtime shots. Minus one point for one tenth of a second over the par. My latest run reflects that. So, three-tenths for minus 3 points, plus 4 hits out of the circle=7 points, or a 93 for today. The first score reflects the designers original intent also.
    BTW, your run with the snub where you have multiple failures to fire would be called “dead man gun(s)” or “runs”. Hopefully, you are not carrying that setup in the real world.
    I’ll be running this with a Level 3 retention rig in the near future after I work on my presentation, index and sight acquisition.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by 1Rangemaster View Post
    Technically speaking, it’s not a “fail”; the Bakersfield description give a penalty for overtime shots. Minus one point for one tenth of a second over the par. My latest run reflects that. So, three-tenths for minus 3 points, plus 4 hits out of the circle=7 points, or a 93 for today. The first score reflects the designers original intent also.
    Per the article, it's one point per quarter second over.
    I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by JCN View Post
    I think you’re missing the point.

    First: accept that this standard and test was effective for training whereas a number of other tests and drills are not.

    Second: the simplicity of the test with the tight time standards is what makes it so. Adding more stuff adds variables and dilutes learning. If you can’t make it simply, you can’t make it with added stuff unless the added stuff has too much time adjustment.

    Third: Fundamentals are important. If you can’t do these standards, work on walking before you run.

    Fourth: When all the extra garbage was cut out, ALL of the Bakersfield PD could do it and that translated to success on the street.

    From my perspective and standpoint, this worked because it’s not pass or fail with targets and time. It’s basically hit factor scoring where there is a speed/accuracy trade off. It’s good for training.

    Also note that once you have the fundamentals locked down at a high level, it’s very easy to adapt and do strong hand and movement. Not the other way around.
    Quote Originally Posted by jlw View Post
    Per the article, it's one point per quarter second over.
    The narrative is a little confusing. The quarter second equals one point is stated, then it’s one point for 1.6 seconds.
    Whatever; I’m not going to be a competitor here. I’ll post using one tenth equals one point, down one out of the 7” circle, etc.
    My objective is to shoot it clean in the time frame. It’s an elegant little exercise in my view.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by 1Rangemaster View Post
    The narrative is a little confusing. The quarter second equals one point is stated, then it’s one point for 1.6 seconds.
    Whatever; I’m not going to be a competitor here. I’ll post using one tenth equals one point, down one out of the 7” circle, etc.
    My objective is to shoot it clean in the time frame. It’s an elegant little exercise in my view.
    The 1.6 was an example as was the 1.8.

    For the first string:
    1.50 and under is no penalty.
    1.51 through 1.75 is a one point penalty.
    1.76 though 2.0 would be two points.

    Therefore, a 1.6 received one point of penalty and a 1.8 received two points.
    I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.

  10. #50
    Thanks for clarifying. I’m still going to work on shooting it clean, within par.

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