Old Bakersfield PD qual

[ssb]

For some of the people who haven’t seen the SWYNTS thread and discussion I’ll reiterate here because it absolutely applies to Bakersfield, which was a vetted and proven drill AND test.

Everything should add and scale. But the flipside is if your base mechanics are shaky or slow, then that compounds slowness in all things.

A sub-second open draw confidently on target with index plus minimal vision is a basic skill.

Add extra visual and mechanical stability and refinement for farther and harder targets.

If you look at my Bakersfield strings (top is most recent, bottom is first string):

Attachment 104627

You can see how each increasing distance took a scaled extra time on top of my base draw and stayed within my skill set.

But if you don’t work your base draw, the others will all suffer.

So sub-second draw is about base mechanics and nobody sane would think that’s the only speed or gear you would have.

Here’s a video from SWYNTS to illustrate:



Same thing regarding reaction time training.

It’s not about being slaved to a buzzer. That’s just silly.

Fast, confident reaction and execution can be done off any stimulus programmed in.



So if you want to be able to execute the first three strings of Bakersfield under par with all your hits… every single time… rather than sometimes or never…

Work on your sub-second index mechanics and work to make them more and more accurate and reproducible at speed and good things will happen.

This is exactly the point of the SWYNTS training 3 yard string. Any skeptics, try it for 2 weeks and rerun the Bakersfield. I suspect you’ll have personal best scores.

As you know, I fell off the daily wagon early this year. However, the dry fire that I do is done at the SWYNTS pace or fairly close. I was in a murder trial all week and preparing for said trial last week, so my attention has been elsewhere. I last shot on 4/30 and I last dry fired Wednesday night.

I shot this cold today and scored a 94. I gave up one penalty to time at the three yard stage, with a 1.52 total time. Draw to first shot on that stage was a 1.26 using a P365 XMacro. The remainder of my penalties were dropped points into the -1 ring (I had awful runs at the reload and 20 yard stages).

Later on, running failure drills I was getting into the 1.1s to the body (5x8) at 3 yards and consistently in the 1.2s at 5 and a few at 7 (I tend to throttle to 1.3-1.4 for 7-10 yards). The SWYNTS pacing works, I think primarily because it forces you through a mental block when it comes to what you actually do need to fire an aimed shot.

[JCN]

I shot this cold today and scored a 94. I gave up one penalty to time at the three yard stage, with a 1.52 total time. Draw to first shot on that stage was a 1.26 using a P365 XMacro. The remainder of my penalties were dropped points into the -1 ring (I had awful runs at the reload and 20 yard stages).

Later on, running failure drills I was getting into the 1.1s to the body (5x8) at 3 yards and consistently in the 1.2s at 5 and a few at 7 (I tend to throttle to 1.3-1.4 for 7-10 yards). The SWYNTS pacing works, I think primarily because it forces you through a mental block when it comes to what you actually do need to fire an aimed shot.

@ssb please humor me and tell me how you think you would have done if you hadn’t trained on SWYNTS at all.

As an aside, I think it’s important for people who like learning about pistolcraft to get the additional understanding that EVERYTHING scales and builds. But that means at the max speed, minimal vision is needed if you train properly.

People who don’t get it usually don’t realize there’s a first gear and don’t train it.

So they only have second gear and up.

I suspect that would have been your previous stumbling block knowing what I know from your progress and improvement with the SWYNTS. I just wish some of the stubborn people would just give it a try for two weeks and see for themselves.

It’s hard to shake legacy mindset sometimes, but if you really want to understand the fundamentals you have to break it down to fundamentals. Rapid index training with minimal vision is first gear.

[Noah]

@JCN , kinda reminds me of the thing going around the training world a few years ago about "90/10" and "80/20", where when drawing to a precise target, use a full speed draw and presentation to have more time for vision and trigger, vs just drawing the gun a little more slowly all around.

Before those videos, for, say, a 25y partial target, I would have less of a sense of urgency on every aspect of my draw/presentation, and I'd simply never thought about it before then.

Faster draw and better index= more time for vision and trigger etc on harder shots, compared to slowing everything down without really understanding why.

Just switched back to a G45 from the PX4s I've been shooting the last year. Shot a 97 (over par on the last 2 at 60 feet though) and then a 94 all under par.

[JCN]

@JCN , kinda reminds me of the thing going around the training world a few years ago about "90/10" and "80/20", where when drawing to a precise target, use a full speed draw and presentation to have more time for vision and trigger, vs just drawing the gun a little more slowly all around.

Yes, but it goes one step farther than that…

It’s not only training speed of base index with minimal vision draw…

It’s also training the accuracy of that index WITHOUT CORRECTION as a base draw.

That’s the key. I’m not training just speed.

I’m training accuracy at speed. Both at index and at maximum doubles.

That is the point of the 3 yard SWYNTS.

You’re training base speed + accuracy of the index and max double.

It’s what’s missing from most traditional training.

[Mike C]

Yes, but it goes one step farther than that…

It’s not only training speed of base index with minimal vision draw…

It’s also training the accuracy of that index WITHOUT CORRECTION as a base draw.

That’s the key. I’m not training just speed.

I’m training accuracy at speed. Both at index and at maximum doubles.

That is the point of the 3 yard SWYNTS.

You’re training base speed + accuracy of the index and max double.

It’s what’s missing from most traditional training.

I would agree and will add my own personal anecdote. I have spent a considerable amount of money and time with traditional training and always felt like there was something lacking in one way or another. Training always consisted of, shoot this drill or that drill. This is what I shoot, here are what your peers are doing etc. This is a good time or score. All of which presented me with a solid amount of data for my performance level but no recipe for improvement. I can't even tell you off the top of my head how many big names I went to thinking I would get the information I need to improve only to walk away being disappointed and feeling like I was no better off.

This is not a hit at traditional training, in fact I still think that it is absolutely necessary. Especially in the tactical space. But in the pursuit of sheer shooting skill improvement it is an absolutely necessity to focus not just on vision or draw speed but index, vision, speed, and accuracy. Additionally you must have a recipe that allows for scalability. SWYNTS is what provides that context. Nothing else I have tried and no one else I have trained with helped with that. SWYNTS provides working within a defined target area at 3, 7, 10 and 15 yards. It allows one to explore the ragged edges of ones index, speed, vision and accuracy. It will tell you where the wheels fall off and is absolutely necessary for skill improvement. If you don’t have this you just have a bunch of data and you stay stagnant as I have for over a decade which sucks.

It's one thing to go to a course or train and spend time, money and effort heavily focusing on draw times, splits and accuracy upon presentation but another thing entirely to have a recipe for improving one's vision, index at speed with accuracy in a scalable format for various ranges. I know this is all redundant but I have not been able to put the effort into SWYNTS as much as I'd like as I have a full plate between home schooling my son, ortho issues and a ton of other things; even still I have seen significant improvement. With a half assed effort due to lack of time I have shaved .35 off my draw time from 1.25'ish which is where I have been for roughly 10 years with the occasional dip lower to a consistent .90-.95 from concealment to A zone out to about 9-10 yards. For me that is a huge improvement and the fact that everything else has improved as well, like splits is just a big ass bonus.

[JCN]

@John Hearne I've always thought of you as a thinking man, I'm happy to explain the what and why of the design anytime off line or by telephone.

In your chart of automaticity... it's not just automaticity that separates people who can do higher level stuff.

It's accuracy and precision of index with less and less correction. This skill isn't required at the lower levels. You can basically take all the time you want to correct for a crap index or transition.

That's what higher level (and gamers) are not allowed to do. It's what separates B/A class from M/GM. How fast AND accurately is one with their base minimum vision. That's literally what's effectively tested on classifiers.





Take this thought experiment:

If I put a 5" circle at 3 yards and had you stand hands at sides.

Stare at the target... then close your eyes and draw and double to the target.

Repeat 10x. How fast could you do each string and how accurately could you do it?

You're not using vision... so you could go fast... your speed would be one variable.

Then the other would be your accuracy.

The goal of a high level shooter is to make it fast and accurate on index WITH MINIMAL CORRECTION REQUIRED off vision.

I'll run this for you sometime, but I have a suspicion of where I'd be at.

I was doing doubles with eyes closed (no draw) and my 5 yard spread at 0.17 was about 5" (is that right @JCS I don't remember exactly). I'm more accurate (like 2-3" with eyes open) but everything scales and builds off vision. The less I need to correct, the better the results.

[John Hearne]

#jcn
Jeff Cooper famously said (roughly) "the body aligns, the eyes confirm." The secrets to this have been know for a good bit.

FWIW, I've long said that dry practice has two major benefits - development of the kinesthetic index without expending ammunition and an awareness of sight movement during sear release that would otherwise be masked by recoil.

[JCN]

#jcn
Jeff Cooper famously said (roughly) "the body aligns, the eyes confirm." The secrets to this have been know for a good bit.

FWIW, I've long said that dry practice has two major benefits - development of the kinesthetic index without expending ammunition and an awareness of sight movement during sear release that would otherwise be masked by recoil.

Yes… but the method to training this and the level of isolation to develop this skill is what has been lost.

The training methods and lack of drill design to focus on this in traditional firearms training is very clear.

If you read through the SWYNTS thread and witness all the people who took traditional training and yet didn’t understand nor develop their index.

The sub second draw has been reviled and misunderstood even by well known trainers who don’t understand the how and why of training index with minimal vision.

As I said, the offer always stands to try and explain further.

Knowing something and training others (or yourself) to do it are completely separate things.

Of course a baseball player would benefit from more kinesthetic prowess.

Just like a shooter would.

Training this is a very different thing from knowing it.

Do the SWYNTS for two weeks and see where your deficit is and see if there might be something you didn’t know you didn’t know…

I am presuming that because you found the Bakersfield string time “spicy” you would benefit a lot from this kind of training.

Try it. I think you’ll gain a LOT by doing SWYNTS dry and live for 2 weeks.

[JCN]

#jcn
Jeff Cooper famously said (roughly) "the body aligns, the eyes confirm." The secrets to this have been know for a good bit.

FWIW, I've long said that dry practice has two major benefits - development of the kinesthetic index without expending ammunition and an awareness of sight movement during sear release that would otherwise be masked by recoil.

As a demonstration of what we are talking about:

I’ve never done this before. But I had a good sense of how it would turn out.



Basically almost everyone who takes longer than a second for an open holster draw or 1.2ish for a concealed draw is using vision feedback to correct for wonky mechanics. Same thing for >0.20 close splits.

While “the secrets” may have been known for a long time… it’s really only fleshed out these days in competition training or perhaps some very specialized LEO/MIL applications.

You have to train sub second to take the correction out of play. That’s not saying what you’ll use in real life, it’s how you train to be more precise, accurate and efficient…. by improving the base mechanics that everything else is built off of.

Giving people looong time parameters is fine for quals and general classes, but it’s not the way to train uncorrected index precision.

Try the SWYNTS 3 yard for two weeks.

[cclark]

Based off of the target dimensions provided by Lee and John (via Ken) I created cardboard templates to trace on my targets for when I go to the range. The reduced dimensions do make shooting this more difficult. I struggle with trying to beat the clock and inevitably throw a shot or two by trying to rush. I shot this cold last week with an 8” circle as my 10 ring and based off of the Wilson Combat video I used his scoring system for a 95.

I shot on the actual Old Bakersfield target I made today and shot an 87 cold. Ran it three more times for a 94, 88, and 94 respectively (with one on the 9 zone line during the last run that I didn’t count, it was too close so I called it a 6).

I find the last two strings to be the most difficult.

I enjoy shooting this drill and I think you get a lot of good work out of very little ammunition expended.

I also ran Dave Spauldings “Deliberation Drill” which is also quite difficult (for me) and threw one about a half an inch high.