Old Bakersfield PD qual

[Gun Nerd]

Sorry for the repeat posts - I was getting an error message.

[Gun Nerd]

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It sounded like when Mike established the COF they switched to 1911s in leather holsters?

The fact that the COF includes a different time standard for revolvers suggests either that the standard was set when revolvers were standard issue, or that officers were able to stay with older guns when transitions occurred.

I need to try it with a K-frame.

[Wayne Dobbs]

I'm going to throw out the idea of adding 0.3 seconds to all the drills on this. This course was timed with a stop watch/whistle system and the lack of consistency and precision with that is well known. Chuck Taylor, whom I had lots of training time with, would fudge that system of timing up or down depending on who was shooting and how much he liked them! When shot timers came along, lots of those "standards" didn't hold up under the precision of the timer. The standards of performance are achievable by most folks who work at it and with 0.3 second added, I think it's reflective of what they were doing at BPD. Regarding the target, all we have are guesses, so I'd think an 8" circle is pretty reasonable and is also a well accepted accuracy standard.

[Gun Nerd]

I'm going to throw out the idea of adding 0.3 seconds to all the drills on this. This course was timed with a stop watch/whistle system and the lack of consistency and precision with that is well known.

Interesting - I had wondered what adjustment might be appropriate. (When Wayne talks about old-school police training, we're well advised to listen.)

For evaluation, here's how that would affect scoring of my two attempts so far, both with my Beretta PX4CC:

Attempt 1 (outdoors, bright sun, AIWB under a button-down; times include a badly fouled draw at 20')

Distance	Time	Orig. penalty	+0.3 penalty
10'	2.00	-2	-1
20'	3.13	-5	-4
30'	6.96	-4	-3
60'	3.86	-2	-1
TOTAL		-13	-9
Raw points - 88		75	79

Second attempt (indoor range, AIWB under an untucked polo shirt; times include a moderately fouled reload):

Distance	Time	Orig. penalty	+0.3 penalty
10'	2.08	-3	-2
20'	2.07	-1	0
30'	7.51	-7	-5
60'	4.38	-4	-3
TOTAL		-15	-10
Raw points - 95		80	85

If you take my best accuracy and times from both runs, I'd get an 86 under the original penalties and a 90 under Wayne's proposal. That's a nice, realistic short-term goal. The most important steps for improvement would be to improve my draw speed (getting it consistently under 1.75 to the first shot at 10-20'), clean up my reloads, and get more consistent accuracy at 60'. All of those steps square well with my observations from other training.

[Wayne Dobbs]

(When Wayne talks about old-school police training, we're well advised to listen.)

Clearly, a double edged quote there! I appreciate the experience and knowledge that I have, but realize it comes at the cost of realizing I'm being seen as old!

[Gun Nerd]

Clearly, a double edged quote there! I appreciate the experience and knowledge that I have, but realize it comes at the cost of realizing I'm being seen as old!

One can be well versed in history without being old. At age 55, that’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

[1Rangemaster]

“Pretty quickly the switch was made to 9mm Smith and Wesson Model 59 autopistols, and later, in the 1980s, to the 1911A1 Colt 45’s that Mike initially recommended (in Milt Sparks leather no less). Then, approximately ten years after that, the department switched again, to Glocks, first in .40 S&W, now 9mm. But the hardware is not generally the most important factor in a gunfight. It’s usually “the nut behind the bolt,” and that is where Mike made his bones.”

It sounded like when Mike established the COF they switched to 1911s in leather holsters?

I don’t own any duty holsters for 1911s but I do have some for 40 cal Glocks….

Can anyone tell me what retention systems were used for 1911s in the 80s and Glocks in the early 90s before SLS?

Howdy. To respond to your questions, my recollection is that generally speaking a thumb break was used in many designs. There was a slant forward holster for 1911s with a “wipe off” strap. The strap snapped on the outside of the holster and had an extension below the button. On the draw, the edge of the hand wiped the strap up and off. There was a screw tensioner also.
I recall the Safariland 070 in the 90s. No bale, sometimes a thumb break, it had a strap behind the holster which unlocked it. I found it awkward, but some did very well with it.
Others may remember more. We live in a time now with exceptional molded holsters. With the pistols, lights (and lasers)dot sights and high performance ammo, it would be amazing to old timers…

[JCN]

I bought one of these off Amazon for $6.

It’ll let me draw circles of any diameter for one off tests and standards.

Hold center with Glock tool or punch from my range bag and rotate around with an ultra fine sharpie.

Scoring line drawn in 5 seconds.

[John Hearne]

Seems like a 7" circle on a sheet of legal paper would be damn close.

If only Word allowed you to specify a paper size and place a 7" circle in the center.....

[Wayne Dobbs]

I shot it twice today using a B-8 repair center. Anything inside the 8 ring was called a 10 and outside but still in rings was a 9. I shot a pair of 99s with the point down shots about 1/4 - 1/2" out (!). No issues with times; shot from Comp-Tac OWB holster and a Gen 5 G-17.