Next steps for a beginner

[useruser0]

I purchased my first handgun (a G17 gen 5) in mid 2022, ran ~1200 rounds of ammo through it to assess and get trigger time, and after that got my Michigan CPL in early 2023. I've also done a lot of internet reading, watched a lot of YouTube videos, and studied the relevant laws for my part of the country... I think I have a better understanding of the moral and legal aspects and consequences of concealed carry than the average citizen. I've also discovered the benefits of dry-fire practice, bought a MantisX X10, and have nearly maxed out all the "awards" in that app. I'm still fine tuning my holster as I settle into EDC. And I have responsible and safe means of storing firearms when not on my person.

At this point I'm dry firing, holster drawing, and running reload drills nearly every day. I don't shoot very many live rounds (maybe ~100/mo but I go in spurts) because of time and money.

I think I have the proper mindset and an adequate toolset. But I'd like to continue developing my skillset. I don't care about winning trophies, instead I want to be a more effective EDC'ing private citizen. The problem is, "effective" is kind of a muddy definition in my mind. What should my goal be, and what's the best way to get there?

Is now a good time to plan some formal training into the budget? I see tons of classes available across the country but I don't know how to pick out the best class and instructor for me in Southwest Michigan.

Should I not worry about that yet and instead spend the money on ammo until I can pass some metric? Should I start going to the gym? Gain some social skills? Befriend some IDPA and USPSA champs on Facebook? Learn unarmed combat? Eat Wheaties every morning? Buy an LTT 92 Elite Compact with RDO?

[okie john]

Getting training is never wrong. It's easy to get passable results doing something in an unsafe or unsound way, like perfecting a bad golf swing. That works until it doesn't.

Look at these course descriptions and try to find something similar in your area.
https://www.insightstraining.com/vie...asp?courseID=4
https://www.insightstraining.com/vie...p?courseID=146
https://www.insightstraining.com/vie...asp?courseID=8

Even their most basic course has a LOT of valuable information for someone getting started. You may think that you're solid on the stuff in the course listing, but if you're self-trained then having a professional verify your skills and understanding is well worth the cost of the course. This goes double when you're talking about legal issues.

Also review the instructor descriptions (https://www.insightstraining.com/instructors.asp) and look for places with folks at that level.

Be careful with social media. Plenty of folks there have absolutely no qualification to speak about anything. Also, even when legit people are talking, you can outrun your headlights in a hurry if they're not there to guide you in person. It's extremely rare to see someone post a video of themselves screwing something up. They all want to make it look easy, and a lot of shooting drills are much tougher than they look.


Okie John

[Flamingo]

I think I have the proper mindset and an adequate toolset. But I'd like to continue developing my skillset. I don't care about winning trophies, instead I want to be a more effective EDC'ing private citizen. The problem is, "effective" is kind of a muddy definition in my mind. What should my goal be, and what's the best way to get there?

Is now a good time to plan some formal training into the budget? I see tons of classes available across the country but I don't know how to pick out the best class and instructor for me in Southwest Michigan.

Should I not worry about that yet and instead spend the money on ammo until I can pass some metric? Should I start going to the gym? Gain some social skills? Befriend some IDPA and USPSA champs on Facebook? Learn unarmed combat? Eat Wheaties every morning? Buy an LTT 92 Elite Compact with RDO?

Get some training.

Should I start going to the gym?

Yes, not sure how old you are, but it is never to late to start.

Learn unarmed combat?

Yes. I like Cecil Burch and Craig Douglas as instructors, but there are a lot of good ones out there. When you find out how bad you are you may want to start some sort of regular formal instruction.

Buy an LTT 92 Elite Compact with RDO?

Only if you want too. If you go the RDO route just know that some instruction will make the transition easier. I need to follow my own advice on this one and get into some RDO training.

[RJ]

Welcome. You passed the first test, by discovering and posting on pistol-forum. Kidding, of course. But this is a pretty good place to ask questions; most errbody here will give you solid, practical advice.

I came very late to guns at age 55, I'm 65 now. So I had to learn by doing, but after about 5 years I realized I needed some good solid training, so that's what I did. To your questions:

I don't care about winning trophies, instead I want to be a more effective EDC'ing private citizen. The problem is, "effective" is kind of a muddy definition in my mind. What should my goal be, and what's the best way to get there?

This is an excellent question.

In order to answer this, we need to know what your current skill level is. Can you, from a cold start, draw your pistol from an open carry / non retention holster and put two rounds into the A-zone of a USPSA Metric / IDPA target, followed by one round into a 4″ circle representing the head, at a distance of 7 yards, within 2.9 seconds? (*)

(* this metric is derived from Gabe White's Technical Skills tests. 2.9s for a Failure to Stop drill is one of the scores required for a "Dark Pin", representing "A tactical level of proficiency in core technical skills of drawing and shooting"

https://www.gabewhitetraining.com/te...-skills-tests/ )

Is now a good time to plan some formal training into the budget? I see tons of classes available across the country but I don't know how to pick out the best class and instructor for me in Southwest Michigan.

Oh yes, definitely. You will avoid spending $$$ on ammo and your skill level will build much, much more rapidly.

Should I not worry about that yet and instead spend the money on ammo until I can pass some metric? Should I start going to the gym? Gain some social skills? Befriend some IDPA and USPSA champs on Facebook? Learn unarmed combat? Eat Wheaties every morning? Buy an LTT 92 Elite Compact with RDO?

Physical fitness also depends on where you are at now. Joining a Gym is a good option; but again, we don't know your current level of fitness. Would you like to share more about that?

Re: Competition, absolutely. I tried USPSA infrequently and enjoyed the heck out of it, despite me finishing DFL or near DFL most matches. I also shot GSSF (indoor), and this might be a good option for a Glock shooter. Search "GSSF Match" for options near you. Another option is pin shooting; The Pin Shoot is taking place in Central Lake MI (a bit Southwest of Petoskey) in June (I am still mulling over whether I can make it up there this year). The 17 can be shot in at least one of the classes. Pin Shooting is definitely a hoot.

Dunno about the optic. If it is a want and not a need, by all means. I get new gun itis, it's afflicts all of us at some point. But "for now", a Glock 17 Gen 5 should work pretty well for the vast majority of firearm needs. You'll get all sorts of inputs on this, obviously. Many suggest a second copy of your carry gun, to put rounds on in training, reserving your carry for, well, carry. Others suggest a snubby, if you don't have a snubby.

Good luck! Grab a chair and sit a while. Enjoy the conversation. We are glad you are here.

[Polecat]

Probably start with Mas Ayoob’s MAG 40, and Rangemaster Combative Pistol.

[useruser0]

Be careful with social media. Plenty of folks there have absolutely no qualification to speak about anything.

Yes I picked up on that. I noticed three things as I stalked the web: first, there are a few common people from whom the influential people who influenced all the influencers quote and to whom they reference; second, people on social media often have no idea who those fixtures are; third, those keystone individuals are active on this website. That's why I'm asking here.

Yes [join a gym], not sure how old you are, but it is never to late to start.

Physical fitness also depends on where you are at now. Joining a Gym is a good option; but again, we don't know your current level of fitness. Would you like to share more about that?

I'm in my thirties, 6' 2", 180-190lb. Kind of tall and lanky, but I'm a dad now and am slowly turning into a pear shape. A tactical pear shape, that is

In order to answer this [question about effectiveness], we need to know what your current skill level is. Can you, from a cold start, draw your pistol from an open carry / non retention holster and put two rounds into the A-zone of a USPSA Metric / IDPA target, followed by one round into a 4″ circle representing the head, at a distance of 7 yards, within 2.9 seconds?

I think I would struggle with that, but I'll try the next chance I get. Using the MantisX the first thing I did last night after a few days away from it was wait for beep, draw from concealment, and dry fire a single shot; repeated ten times. My average score was 93.1 (whatever that means in terms of inches at 7 yards) and an average time of 3.14 seconds to first shot. After warming up a little bit my average time was down to 2.39 seconds to first shot with a small drop in score to 89.9 (again whatever that means in inches at distance). My best average time doing this drill so far has been 1.51 seconds, but at that point the wheels are falling off the wagon. My takeaway from that is I struggle to place the first quality shot in under two seconds.

Combine that with the fact that I have done very few live fire drills. Lots of plinking, but very little in the way of timed holes in targets.

[Quantrill]

Shoot practical pistol matches.

[gringop]

I think I have the proper mindset and an adequate toolset. But I'd like to continue developing my skillset. I don't care about winning trophies, instead I want to be a more effective EDC'ing private citizen. The problem is, "effective" is kind of a muddy definition in my mind. What should my goal be, and what's the best way to get there?

Is now a good time to plan some formal training into the budget? I see tons of classes available across the country but I don't know how to pick out the best class and instructor for me in Southwest Michigan.

Should I not worry about that yet and instead spend the money on ammo until I can pass some metric? Should I start going to the gym? Gain some social skills? Befriend some IDPA and USPSA champs on Facebook? Learn unarmed combat? Eat Wheaties every morning? Buy an LTT 92 Elite Compact with RDO?

My advice is to figure out what your time/$$$ budget can stand and then you can start setting some goals that are achievable with your budget.

1: Do you have a place to shoot that will allow you to draw from a holster? If not, then the only live fire from a holster you could get would likely be at a local competition (IDPA for me). That is the situation I was in when I started. I remedied that by joining a local rifle club that allowed it.

2: Is there an avenue to allow you to get bulk or cheap practice ammo? The more $$$ you can save on ammo (of reasonable quality), the more your budget opens up for other things.

3: Do you have a shot timer, or phone app that will work as a timer? You can use this with your dryfire and live fire and will be essential when you set and practice drills and standards.

4: Find some drills and standards that will work for your skill level. Look here to start with. "Dot Torture" works well for just untimed accuracy. Since I don't have a place I can practice at 3 yards, I worked up a document that that makes 3" dots on 2 different pages that works well at 7 yards.

The point is to get a set of drills and standards and shoot them enough that you can evaluate your shooting and then set some achievable goals to work towards.
If you find that your time/$$$ budget is not working out then change your shooting goals to be realistic with what you can achieve.

Re. Training classes local to you. I'm not sure where the best place to get info on that is. You may want to look over ARFcom Hometown, Michigan forum to try to get some info (I know that ARFcom is 90% full of retards but wade through it)

Insights Training mentioned above is absolutely top notch, I took a metric shit-ton of their classes back when Greg Hamilton and John Holschen were traveling doing training classes but that was many years ago.

If I find any more info re. Michigan training I will try to update this thread.

I guess my main point I am trying to get across is, make a realistic shooting budget that will work for you then create a practice plan with drills and standards.
While working on those drills and standards, record how you do on them (times and scores) so that you can track your improvements.
While you are tracking your improvements, work on the areas that you do poorly on.

Find some quality local training and let the trainer know what your level is on those drills and standards and let that guide you on what kind of training would be useful for you.

Gringop

[Jay585]

I think @RJ has some solid spot-on advice. I agree with him regarding a "skills test" - pick a few, shoot a couple, see where you're at.

I think I have the proper mindset and an adequate toolset. But I'd like to continue developing my skillset. I don't care about winning trophies, instead I want to be a more effective EDC'ing private citizen. The problem is, "effective" is kind of a muddy definition in my mind. What should my goal be, and what's the best way to get there?

My opinion, the most "effective EDC'ing private citizen" is the guy who sees trouble coming and leaves before it reaches them, or defeats the will of the opponent before action is taken.

Situational awareness, understanding body language/intent, and profiling.

Here's some books in that department:

Principles of Personal Defense
Violence of Mind: Training and Preparation for Extreme
Beyond OODA: Developing the Orientation for Deception, Conflict and Violence (part 2 of the above book - I haven't read it yet)
Left of Bang
Even Musashi: An Epic Novel of the Samurai Era has some interesting perspective on mindset and battle

EDC'ing shouldn't be about being able to stop untoward harm with projectiles and sharpened steel - although that is a component.

[Clusterfrack]

@useruser0, add this goldmine of info to your reading list:
https://www.amazon.com/Straight-Talk.../dp/1440247544

..and it features a few chapters by some of P-F's subject matter experts.