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Thread: PSA: Glocks and manipulation training...

  1. #1
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    PSA: Glocks and manipulation training...

    I am in the middle of a State Firearms Instructor Update that I should have had last year.

    Something I learned was that a Glock issuing agency nearby was bending the snot out of Glock trigger bars. Went to Glock about it and, of course, the engineers blamed the cops. For years we have set up a Type II or III malfunction, and had the students from the low ready bring the gun up and "experience the malfuntion" then go reduce the malfunction.

    The problem was, near as I understand it, was that when you set it up that way the gun had the trigger forward, and the trigger bar was pressing against the connector without the striker tension resisting you, and the trigger spring helping you. The tiny refridgerator light went off in my pea brain, and remembered the admonotion to not pull the trigger with the slide off unless you were controlling the trigger bar by the upward protrusuion for the safety plunger as you did so. This was one of the standard armorer's tests.

    Apparently the solution was to dry fire, dropping the striker, then locking the slide to the rear, then set up the malfunction. The difference being the trigger is not being held by the trigger safety against the trigger spring pressure, then suddenly, forcefully released into the connector.

    Not sure if I cognatively understand the process as well as I want to, but a Type II or III malfunction has a dead trigger, not one that is forward that allows you to make that nasty feeling <crunch> as you "experience the malfunction" and snap the trigger/drop safety and trigger to the rear into the connector.

    Since they changed the process for setting up malfuntions, zero problems.

    Sorry if y'all knew this, it was news to me.

    Another thing I had to relearn. During the opening qual course my dot disappeared. First time that had happened since on my Type 1 RMR06 since I got the updated sealing plate on my G-17.4 MOS. Still really not sure what happened there, but the leading theory was that I had manually adjusted the dot, so it would not adjust automatically for the morning light, and was just too dim to see under time constraints. So I transitioned and went to my irons. The whole reason I got into MRDS sights was my eyes did some funky stuff as I got older and when shooting with both eyes open my brain had two clear distinct front sights as my eyeglass prescription shifted. When I shoot irons I have to close one eye, or my brain randomly selects which clear front sight to use, resulting some wildly inconsistent shot placement, since there is still a dominant eye. This has been verified by my eye doc, who I think would just as soon take my money and not put in the brain power to try to help with these issues. I don't think I remembered to close one eye for the qual, and barely passed about 14 points lower than I have come to expect.

    Then I got home and did some dry work, and noted that my sight picture was not lining up with my dot. The front sight, after about 2,000 rounds, had shot loose, despite degreasing and Lock-tite. It was wiggling like a six year old's loose tooth. So in one day, my optic was not up to the job, likely my fault, and my irons failed. Still passed, but it was a lot more work on my part than it should have been.

    A couple of people here have complained about the Glock front sight and its method of securing. Add me to the list, as I eye my aftermarket slide with the dovetailed front sight...

    pat

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by UNM1136 View Post
    The front sight, after about 2,000 rounds, had shot loose, despite degreasing and Lock-tite. It was wiggling like a six year old's loose tooth.
    I've installed sights on well over a hundred Glocks, and have yet to see one of my fronts shoot loose.. I have seen loose fronts after being installed by other armorers, so I stand by my method: use a generous dollop of red Loctite instead of the blue you always hear to use, and don't spare the wrist power – crank it down. Back in the 90s I heard about front sight screws that were so long that if you torqued them too much, you might break the tritium; that's not the case anymore, with any major brand of sights – if it were, I would've broken something by now.

  3. #3
    Site Supporter ST911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Mac View Post
    I've installed sights on well over a hundred Glocks, and have yet to see one of my fronts shoot loose.. I have seen loose fronts after being installed by other armorers, so I stand by my method: use a generous dollop of red Loctite instead of the blue you always hear to use, and don't spare the wrist power – crank it down. Back in the 90s I heard about front sight screws that were so long that if you torqued them too much, you might break the tritium; that's not the case anymore, with any major brand of sights – if it were, I would've broken something by now.
    I install with 242 and turn until the screw stops, then just a tiny bit more oomph. Sometimes, clear nail polish, red loctite, vibratite, whatever is handy. All stay on.

    As I learned, I have over-torqued screws and spun the heads right off the screw. That can happen with some occasionally crappy screws from some sight vendors.

    Haven't broken a tritium vial (or seen that) in a long time, but it's happened.

    Front sights coming loose or flying off the gun is so common that I take my sight tools to stuff. It's only the last few classes I haven't had to reinstall sights for someone. Had a shooter lose his FS in the middle of a qual a couple of weeks ago. Now, it's RDSs coming loose or flying off the gun.

    A dovetail front sight on a Glock would be interesting, but then you'd have legions of cops bumping their front and rear sight to zero their bad trigger press.
    الدهون القاع الفتيات لك جعل العالم هزاز جولة الذهاب

  4. #4
    Indeed, I thought everybody used blue loctite on those. I always have and have never had one come off.

    I'd love to see that Glock slide with forward dovetail. It always looked to me like there'd never be enough material to cut a dovetail.

  5. #5
    THE THIRST MUTILATOR Nephrology's Avatar
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    I used to use blue loctite but in hot sunlight + extended strings of fire they will come loose. I use red loctite now, no problems, usually can still break the hex nut loose with a Bic lighter and some torque.

  6. #6
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    Yeah, used blue. As far as torque goes, it seems the screw is really soft, as the corners are rounding off as I retighten with my Dawson front sight tool... It is an aftermarket suppressor height sight, from a small operation that has sent me other out-of-spec parts for the same gun...multiple out of spec connectors and a flat trigger. When I called the headshed with connectors and calipers in hand they stonewalled and quoted their refund policy. The connectors were out of spec and it was clear. A Glock connector should have to be pushed out of the trigger housing with the armorer's tool, not work its way out when shaken vigorously. The next day connectors were off the website with the explanation "too many people are over polishing our connectors to the point that their triggers are now unsafe, and they shoot their sink, and want me to pay for it" or some similar nonsense. Not using them any more, Dawson is my first stop now for sights, others for other parts...

    I also had issues with my first (actually only so far) Dawson purchase, when I got the wrong height sight. The part number was correct on the sight, but calipers showed the sight was no where near the correct height. The CS rep gave me a bit of a hard time until I sent pics. The part number on the part was not correct. Immediate and no cost replacement was sent without a request to send back the wrong sight. It can happen anywhere, I guess, and the CS response is what determines getting a second chance. Dawson got one, the other joint didn't. I just haven't had the time to pull the old sights and put the Dawsons on. Gonna make the time now.

    Replacing this sight ASAP.

    pat

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViniVidivici View Post
    Indeed, I thought everybody used blue loctite on those. I always have and have never had one come off.

    I'd love to see that Glock slide with forward dovetail. It always looked to me like there'd never be enough material to cut a dovetail.
    I just looked at my aftermarket, bullnosed NP3 coated slide...actually looked at it, no hyperbole for the post and I am wrong. Standard sight interface...and since the slide came from the same vendor as the connectors, flat trigger and sights, I am adding 1,000 rounds to the usual 1,000 round without cleaning "break in session" I require from my cops before showing up to qualify with a new gun...

    pat

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by ST911 View Post
    As I learned, I have over-torqued screws and spun the heads right off the screw. That can happen with some occasionally crappy screws from some sight vendors.
    This reminds me: I should clarify that I use small front sight tools that you can only grab with fingertips, not a screwdriver-size tool you can wrap a whole mitt around – I suspect I might break or strip some hex heads with the latter.

  9. #9
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    I’m a fan of coating the underside of the front Glock sight with blue loctite in addition to the screw.

    I never like trusting just a screw alone to be up to the job. Whether it’s for an MOS plate or an optic I always try and get some surface adhesion (usually with E6000) in addition to screw torque.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nephrology View Post
    I used to use blue loctite but in hot sunlight + extended strings of fire they will come loose. I use red loctite now, no problems, usually can still break the hex nut loose with a Bic lighter and some torque.
    I’ve switched to red for the front sight as well after the same experience. It sits right above the barrel and is heated up by it - my theory is it burnt off the blue loctite eventually.

    Literally for every other application I use Blue.
    God Bless,

    Brandon

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