Dry-Fire vs DA/SA

[zaitcev]

This is another one of "which gun for me" questions, but hopefully it's more specific than most.

One thing of practicing dry-fire for me is so-called follow-up: after squeezing the trigger to fire, reset the mechanism and re-acquire the sights, then release the trigger to reset and possibly start another cycle. In a Glock the reset is done by pulling the slide back a little bit.

A while ago I bought a Beretta 84 in order to learn DA/SA. However, it presents a couple of impediments to practice. It does not fire without magazine, so using the rear motion of the slide to reset catches on empty. But more importantly, if trigger is held down, the hammer cannot the re-cocked.

I hope it was clear enough an explanation. So the question is if a DA/SA gun exists that a) fires with no magazine and b) has a hammer that can be cocked with trigger still held back. Does anyone know of one? If you own one, can you test it for me explicitly?

Thanks in advance.

[Moylan]

nevermind--off topic reply. sorry

[AdioSS]

Supposedly it is easy to remove the wire used to make it not fire without a magazine, if you want to. Neither of my 84’s came with that “feature”

[luckyman]

I have the feeling I don’t know what I don’t know here, and might be able to learn something…
Why is it important to keep the trigger pressed?

I would have thought you could have released the trigger between presses, and just kept shooting double action every press, or simply release the trigger and thumb the hammer back if you want a single action press?

[MattyD380]

I find that, once the hammer has fallen, I can pull back the slide very slightly (with my support hand) until I hear a “click.” You can then re-cock the hammer as if the slide had fully cycled, and let the trigger out until it resets. I keep my strong hand fully “gripped,” re-acquire with my support hand, and dry fire the next “shot.”

It’s not ideal, but it works. Especially when I’m trying to keep a snap-cap chambered (which I generally try to do) and/or using my 3rd gens with a mag disconnect.

[Clusterfrack]

All of my CZs can reset the hammer by cycling the slide. But I do not ever dryfire that way. It would be way too disruptive to manipulate the hammer or slide for multiple 'shots'.

I either practice trigger press (e.g. the Trigger Press at Speed drill, or trigger press after a reload), simulate a trigger press with the safety on, or simply don't press the trigger at all. The last way is how I do most of my dryfire. I find it very helpful to separate the visual aspect dryfire from trigger mechanics.

[RevolverRob]

Just let the trigger out. You're wasting more time trying to ride the reset and modify your dryfire technique than just letting the trigger go.

Short stroking a DAO pull and 'soft reset' of a SFA/SA trigger is exacerbated by trying to ride the reset. Both are which can easily be resolved by just letting the trigger out.

So, press the trigger and work your DA pulls. Then reach up and cock the hammer and work your SA pulls.

Edit: for DA/SA shooting. It's probably more important to reach up and cock the hammer and then work on decocking when you take the gun off the target than to work on SA pulls.

[zaitcev]

I find that, once the hammer has fallen, I can pull back the slide very slightly (with my support hand) until I hear a “click.” You can then re-cock the hammer as if the slide had fully cycled, and let the trigger out until it resets. I keep my strong hand fully “gripped,” re-acquire with my support hand, and dry fire the next “shot.”

It’s not ideal, but it works. Especially when I’m trying to keep a snap-cap chambered (which I generally try to do) and/or using my 3rd gens with a mag disconnect.

This is pretty much what I'm doing at this point. However, I end fighting the gun more than practicing. On a Beretta 84, it takes quite an effort to start the slide moving as it works against the hammer, but then it becomes much easier. As a result, it's next to impossible to pull the slide enough to re-cock, but not enough to prevent a lock-back (and losing the snap cap, as you observed).

[MattyD380]

This is pretty much what I'm doing at this point. However, I end fighting the gun more than practicing. On a Beretta 84, it takes quite an effort to start the slide moving as it works against the hammer, but then it becomes much easier. As a result, it's next to impossible to pull the slide enough to re-cock, but not enough to prevent a lock-back (and losing the snap cap, as you observed).

Not I'm sure if I'm missing what you're saying... but... when I use this approach, I basically just nudge the slide back enough to hear a "click"; it doesn't really put much pressure on the hammer. Then I manually cock. Apparently, the click enables the trigger to reset without a full slide cycle. I mean, all guns are different, so maybe the Cheetah won't work like that. But, I tried it on my Makarov (also a blowback) and the technique works as described.

I mean, I think you can practice your DA without any manipulation between pulls and just practice SA independently, thumb cocking each time. But, I like to do the above-described procedure sometimes because it helps me get a sense of where my hand needs to be positioned to minimize grip change between DA and SA. I have short fingers, so that can be "a thing" on certain DA/SA guns.

[Clusterfrack]

...losing the snap cap...

I don't use a snap cap. With Glocks or CZ Shadow2s, I just dryfire on an empty chamber. For CZ p-07s, which have a firing pin retaining pin that gets damaged by repeated dryfire, I insert a thick O-ring or half a foam earplug between the hammer and firing pin.