Federal .38 Special "Train and Protect" LSWC-HP

[Tokarev]

Are there not already loads that work?

Yes, but availability is sketchy at this time. I first saw my carry load, Remington's 158-grain LSWC-HP, for sale today after about a year of its not being out there. Winchester's version is supposed to be good too.

Remington version didn't do well in my gel test from a couple years ago.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....highlight=test

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[Wondering Beard]

Remington version didn't do well in my gel test from a couple years ago.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....highlight=test

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As far as I remember, none of the "big threes" 158gr +P LSWCHP did well in ballistic gelatin tests but they still did quite well on bad guys.

[revchuck38]

Remington version didn't do well in my gel test from a couple years ago.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....highlight=test

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

As far as I remember, none of the "big threes" 158gr +P LSWCHP did well in ballistic gelatin tests but they still did quite well on bad guys.

The 158-grain +P LSWC-HP loads were designed to work well from the 4" barrels in common use in the '80s. I'm not surprised they didn't expand from a 2", though penetration was still good.

FWIW, the velocity of the Remington load from my 3" M10-7 was ~835 fps and ~865 fps from my 4" M10-8. My notebook is in my range bag which is in my truck or I'd be more precise. I run Winchester's 130-grain Ranger Bonded +P in my 642 because it needs lighter bullets to hit POA and because it's Doc-recommended. The 642 has its own dedicated ammo can of 125-grain handloads for practice.

[jetfire]

Do you know this, or is it your inner snark monster talking?

Inner? Sir my snark monster is very external.

And I do actually know it, the load specs are exactly the same as previous packaging according to the sell sheets.

[revchuck38]

...the load specs are exactly the same as previous packaging according to the sell sheets.

Uh, nope. Here is the current stuff. Here is the stuff it replaced. The new stuff is brass cased and standard pressure, the old stuff is nickel cased and +P. The bullets do look fairly similar; the darker color on the new stuff could well have been caused by more time in the tumbling media. I'm unaware of anyway non-+P 158-grain LSWC-HP offered by Federal prior to this.

It's also quite possible that Federal just subbed brass cases for nickel and backed off on the powder charge enough to bring it to standard pressure specs. They claim it's a new bullet design. We won't know until a reputable source actually tests this load, and it's a good chance that'll never happen. I'm going to test it for velocity and accuracy, but then I'm a disreputable source. Worst case, I've really overpaid for two boxes of practice ammo.

[jetfire]

Uh, nope. Here is the current stuff. Here is the stuff it replaced. The new stuff is brass cased and standard pressure, the old stuff is nickel cased and +P. The bullets do look fairly similar; the darker color on the new stuff could well have been caused by more time in the tumbling media. I'm unaware of anyway non-+P 158-grain LSWC-HP offered by Federal prior to this.

It's also quite possible that Federal just subbed brass cases for nickel and backed off on the powder charge enough to bring it to standard pressure specs. They claim it's a new bullet design. We won't know until a reputable source actually tests this load, and it's a good chance that'll never happen. I'm going to test it for velocity and accuracy, but then I'm a disreputable source. Worst case, I've really overpaid for two boxes of practice ammo.

I wasn't aware they had different claimed MVs on the new load vs the old one, that's interesting. Regardless, my dude at Federal says that the projectile is the same as the old one. I stand corrected on the velocity, although I'd be willing to bet that the new stuff chronos hotter than 830 FPS.

[revchuck38]

I wasn't aware they had different claimed MVs on the new load vs the old one, that's interesting. Regardless, my dude at Federal says that the projectile is the same as the old one. I stand corrected on the velocity, although I'd be willing to bet that the new stuff chronos hotter than 830 FPS.

If it's the same bullet, then it'll be dedicated to my M49 which shoots to POA with 158s. Nothing that weight is going to expand anyway. I'll chrono it when it gets here, it'll be interesting to see what we end up with.

[jetfire]

If it's the same bullet, then it'll be dedicated to my M49 which shoots to POA with 158s. Nothing that weight is going to expand anyway. I'll chrono it when it gets here, it'll be interesting to see what we end up with.

Definitely. I can say that I shot some the new one and the old allegedly +P load out of that Python I beat up and the felt recoil impulse was so similar that I couldn't have told you one from the other.

[Lost River]

Yes, but availability is sketchy at this time. I first saw my carry load, Remington's 158-grain LSWC-HP, for sale today after about a year of its not being out there. Winchester's version is supposed to be good too. If Federal's new iteration of this load works well it'd give us another option. Plus it's about half the price - $.80/round versus $1.50/round for the Remington. I might order a couple of boxes just to play with it.

ETA: I ordered two boxes off Federal's website. I'll check for velocity and POI/POA when it gets here.

What are your thoughts on a 170 grain powder coated LSWC-HP loaded warm?

I know an older gentleman who casts and PCs amazing bullets. I was considering paying him to cast me up a big batch if there was enough of a market for such things. I set back a bit of Starline brass for such a project, but I just haven't decided on a direction.

A +P defense type .38 might be the way to go, if the demand is there.






They are what I currently keep loaded in my Model 15 that is kept as one of the house guns.

[Hambo]

What are your thoughts on a 170 grain powder coated LSWC-HP loaded warm?


They are what I currently keep loaded in my Model 15 that is kept as one of the house guns.

Have you tried any of those in magnum cases?