Training to failure

[JCS]

These are just my thoughts,

Training to fatigue and to failure should be viewed as two separate things IMO.

I'm just spitballing here but this is why I think there is more value in multiple short training sessions than long sessions. Two 15 min sessions might just be better than one 45 min session. When we are fatigued we start recruiting different muscles, tendons, etc. that we wouldn't normally use potentially building improper neural pathways to the brain (I'm not saying this as a fact but more of a hypothesis). As I learn more about how the brain works it makes me wonder how things like this work. Say I'm working on wide transitions (which I have been lately). At the beginning of the session I am moving my hands at x speed and it requires x force to happen. When I'm fatigued x speed now requires x+1 to happen. Then x+2, etc. Am I building neural pathways telling my brain on this transition I need x, x+1 or x+2 to make it happen? Does my brain get confused when I'm fresh on a USPSA stage and not fatigued like I was during my session.

In the context of USPSA stages are just seconds long. Yes, fatigue does set it and we need to be able to still perform while fatigued. There's probably a sweet spot and that's what I try to find in training.

Thoughts @JCN @Clusterfrack ??

[Clusterfrack]

Thread that continues previous discussion of advantages and disadvantages of training to failure.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

In the learning theory literature with many different domains, distributed practice has been shown to be superior to massed practice. It's not just gun world, it's everywhere.

Besides fatigue, the time interevals allow that smaller bit of learning to consolidate and be better established in your memory systems of various types. Semantic, procedural, etc.

[Clusterfrack]

...Training to fatigue and to failure should be viewed as two separate things IMO.

I'm just spitballing here but this is why I think there is more value in multiple short training sessions than long sessions. Two 15 min sessions might just be better than one 45 min session. When we are fatigued we start recruiting different muscles, tendons, etc. that we wouldn't normally use potentially building improper neural pathways to the brain (I'm not saying this as a fact but more of a hypothesis). As I learn more about how the brain works it makes me wonder how things like this work. Say I'm working on wide transitions (which I have been lately). At the beginning of the session I am moving my hands at x speed and it requires x force to happen. When I'm fatigued x speed now requires x+1 to happen. Then x+2, etc. Am I building neural pathways telling my brain on this transition I need x, x+1 or x+2 to make it happen? Does my brain get confused when I'm fresh on a USPSA stage and not fatigued like I was during my session.

In the context of USPSA stages are just seconds long. Yes, fatigue does set it and we need to be able to still perform while fatigued. There's probably a sweet spot and that's what I try to find in training.

Great points for discussion. Here are a few thoughts:

Totally agree that fatigue and failure are not the same, although mental or physical fatigue often increases the chances of failure.

In my post in the other thread, I was talking about mental ("visual"?) fatigue, not physical. Maybe this should be called something else? There are some interesting things written about willpower.

I don't find that physical fatigue is problematic for shooting. I've shot some of my best matches after a heavy training session. My arms felt heavy and sore, but that didn't affect my shooting negatively at all. In fact, I think it might help keep me from muscling the gun. After all, most aspects of handgun shooting don't require a lot of strength. I do find that hand fatigue (especially support hand) is a problem. If we are fatigued to the point that motor unit recruitment or motor neuron function are compromised, I imagine that performance will be affected. But that takes more physical effort than I use in most any pistol shooting activity.

I don't think that training while physically fatigued necessarily builds "bad" neural pathways. For me the key is visualizing what I want to do, and having the proper cues for the action. When I succeed my brain rewards itself. When I fail, my brain records that and hopefully uses the information to do it better next time.

[JCN]

@Clusterfrack

I agree with you in every endeavor except classifiers at GM / Hundo level and steel challenge.

From the other thread:

“I am happy to discuss.

I think training to failure is a good thing. But in the general sense for training and matches. You want to have a broad training so you can perform under any circumstance.

HOWEVER… for something like a classifier or if you were competing perhaps for a national title in steel challenge you wouldn’t necessarily practice after chopping wood for 3 hours beforehand, right?

So my burn in advice is strictly limited to ultimate timing and mind’s eye “perfect best life run” visualization for Hundos for classifiers and other stylized runs.

Practice and dry fire for sure I train to failure. But I don’t have expectations of performance for those scenarios.“

I think for practice, being able to listen and adapt to the cadence your body has RIGHT NOW is the way to go.

But for Hundo level, you want to be living the best version of yourself and that means being rested and fresh.

It’s like the 100 yard dash at the Olympics. You envision and have your best mind’s eye performance burned in because that’s where you need it to be.