Originally Posted by Archer1440
This so much!
Carry good quality equipment. Train, practice and run your gear and create your own data. Don’t listen to the flood of “influencers” or YouTubers. I am getting jaded and salty about the social media and firearm industry as a whole lately.
No based on my sample of 1 plus data from the following:
My local PD (2000 sworn) has hundreds of these on duty guns (factory cut M&P issue / officers buy P-2 or MPS)
Our nearest large neighboring PD (also 2000 sworn / M&Ps) is issuing these to all officers.
Another PD I’m familiar with with (100 officers) is issuing these on Glock 17s.
A large federal agency which recently ran its first Academy class issued RDS pistols (G19 MOS /P2).
As opposed to two random dudes on YouTube.
I put a P2 on a G22 that destined to shoot 180 GoldDot/Lawman after separate convos with 3 dif SMEs on this board.
No issues on a direct milled unit with 1200 rounds to date.
More folks would make the money stretch v a 509t if the P2 was less unobtanium.
I am not your attorney. I am not giving legal advice. Any and all opinions expressed are personal and my own and are not those of any employer-past, present or future.
No mention in the video of them sending any of the mentioned optics in for warranty repair or replacement. Why would you NOT do that? If you get a replacement and then have the same thing happen in the same time period under the same circumstances, then you might be onto something. Every manufacturer can have a bad lot or a one-off failure. There also can be mid-stream manufacturing changes to correct something that you'll never know about unless you work with them under warranty.
*Edit - I'm also getting sick and tired of instructors or influencers bitching about what "the Internet" says. The Internet is not an entity, it's a collection of information that relies on the user to discern what is true or what is not based on their own experience, research, and frankly intelligence. This is gross over-simplification of something complex and a cop out from intelligently countering something they think is false. From the video, "everyone buys these optics because THE INTERNET told them it was good". No. Companies develop reputations based on shared experiences by the consumers. There is also clever marketing and word of mouth in online communities that can lead someone to try a product. Stop creating a monster that doesn't exist.
Last edited by stomridertx; 08-13-2023 at 05:53 PM.
I do not know these two guys anymore than I know any of y’all. That’s the internet. I do know Aimpoint after buying and using a half dozen or more red dots from them. I do listen to what is said and weigh things out. These guys have had two ACRO’s develop condensation and it seems like I read here that there was some concern with the lack of nitrogen or whatever between the sacrificial lenses. So it’s not far fetched to have one develop moisture inside in humid conditions. I think it’s worth a look instead of clinging blindly to either side.
If they are purged, then maybe a bad seal, it happens. If they are not then it’s something to consider and maybe changes could be made.
I’d like to know either way and not just blindly follow along.
There have been some issues with some P2's.
One of mine stopped responding to button presses in the middle of class earlier in the summer. I contacted Aimpoint and they shipped me a new one. I know that at least one agency has seen some units experience the same issue. I've not seen one fog, nor have I heard of that happening among various agency issued units. But I have no doubt there are some units out there that have fogged.
None of that means there are widespread issues with the P2. I do not expect every unit to fog or have the buttons fail to work or whatever other failure mode someone will run into. If you have never bought an optic that's had a problem, it tells me you haven't bought many optics or that you don't use them very hard. Buy enough of them and sooner or later you're going to run into a specific unit that has a problem, even from very reputable manufacturers.
So, yes, there are some P2 units that have experienced an issue in the field. Crucially every one I'm aware of has resulted in an optic that still worked. When my P2 stopped responding to button presses I only noticed it because I went to dim down the optic for a precision shot at longer distance (reducing some of the starburst effect) and the - button didn't do anything. But the optic was still running. And it kept running as I got an RMA. And it kept running when I put it in the box to send it back to Aimpoint HQ in northern Virginia. I assume it was probably still running at max brightness when they took it out of the box at Aimpoint HQ.
If I'm going to experience a "failure" with an optic, give me the failure that results in a working optic until I either run out of battery or physically remove it any day.
OMG THERE'S FOG ON THE OUTER LENS and causes absolutely zero usability issues for the optic SOMEBODY DIAL 911!!! Hell, I run an M&P and the stupid cutout in the top of the barrel hood basically serves as a jet that ensures the front lens of my optic gets coated with a blend of gun oil and ejecta particulate from the act of firing the gun, so the view through the optic gets hazy after about 100 rounds anyway. It makes zero difference in performance with the optic.
Your lens fogging isn't cool, but it isn't the end of the world either. My buttons not working isn't cool, but it isn't like the optic jumped off the gun mid-recoil, slapped me in the face and then told me to go fuck myself as it yeeted itself into the atmosphere. I just got stuck with a brighter-than-wanted dot until I sent it in for replacement. I had the replacement optic in hand in less than a week, and when I mounted the new optic it shot about 3" high and 1" right of point of impact. So even though I didn't have a chance to zero the optic before I needed to teach with that gun, I had enough of a near-o that I could perform all the exercises used during the day and sneak in an adjustment on the fly as the day went on.
I've seen a fair few P2's on the line now and so far I've seen fewer issues caused by P2's breaking than I have seen from open emitters working as intended.
I ain't worried.
3/15/2016
So far mine has been solid, though I've only had it mounted and carried for about 6 months so far. I'm definitely keeping an eye on mine and others, but so far I have not been told of any issues as of yet. Aimpoint is great about resolving issues afaik, so I'm hoping the fogging issue gets resolved and/or is just limited to a potentially bad batch.
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I guess most everyone wants to be on YouTube these days-sheesh! What puzzles me is what others have mentioned: there’s an issue, and people immediately jump on the ‘net and start the panic dance.
I’ve seen a number-several dozen-ACROs in training and quals. We had a P1 where the sacrificial lens just cracked. Aimpoint made it good. One P1 I had seemed to lose a bit of the forward lens coating. Aimpoint made it good. Even with the cracked lens, [U]the unit was still functional and usable. I and others currently run a P2 on personal weapons. I’m impressed with the 2032 battery life. I’ll be running mine for the foreseeable future, and will check it like I do others.
As @TCinVA said, “I ain’t worried.”
Email notification from Kenzie's with P2's in stock.
Status as of 7:25PM : backordered
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