Aimpoint ACRO P-2

[BillSWPA]

While I am very new to dots and improper focus is a real possibility, I do not see how it matters given what I am looking at. Conditions in which neither the dot nor the backup sights are useable are super easy for me to reproduce with either an RM07 or Swampfox Liberty, to the point that I am shocked that others have not encountered them.

All I can say at this point is that if all of you are happy without auto-adjust, then don’t use it. As for me, at this point zero of my hard-earned, finite, after-tax dollars will ever be spent on a pistol-mounted optic without auto-adjust unless it is only a range toy.

[GJM]

I just went and experimented with the dot one below max intensity in a somewhat dim lit garage. When I target focused I really didn't notice the dot intensity. When I tried to look through the optic, the dot overwhelmed and kept me from seeing the target.

You will obviously buy whatever optic you want, but if you want to optimally use the red dot, you will want to learn to target focus.

[GJM]

Bill, I should add that I appreciate you bringing this up and being persistent-- it caused me to learn something about target vs dot focus with a manual intensity red dot.

[BillSWPA]

Bill, I should add that I appreciate you bringing this up and being persistent-- it caused me to learn something about target vs dot focus with a manual intensity red dot.

Let me return the expression of appreciation for you and the others here. I have learned a great deal from many who I disagree with on this issue. Your experimentation explains why I was seeing something completely unusable and others are seeing something they can use.

Part of the difference of opinion may be that I am using one of the few optics with an auto-adjust that works well. Apparently other auto-adjust systems have not worked as well. It appears that the RMR-HD may be even better, but the RMRCC may have a slow adjustment. If so, I hope Trijicon can get the bugs worked out of the RMRCC.

One question: I understand that I should be focusing on the target and then see the dot come up over the target, but how do you avoid looking through the window when that happens?

I tried the RM07 in a darkened basement this evening. Even with the auto adjust, using the dot with barely enough light to properly identify a target becomes an exercise similar to an occluded window. The only way I can know what the dot covers is by superimposing the images from each eye. Should something similar be happening with more target focus, or is there something else I missed?

[TCB]

I think you’re way overthinking this. Set your dot to work in full sun. When it gets dark have a setting that works with whatever illumination you use. Is your in one of those situations where it’s in between those lighting conditions use white light to change the conditions to your advantage and push on. I work a shift that starts off in full sunlight and ends in complete blackness. My have 2 settings I use for my optics and if something crazy hay and it hasn’t been switched over from daylight to night it may not be “perfect” but still works just fine. Just an opinion of a decade or so of working with optics in the light and dark.

[GJM]

Let me return the expression of appreciation for you and the others here. I have learned a great deal from many who I disagree with on this issue. Your experimentation explains why I was seeing something completely unusable and others are seeing something they can use.

Part of the difference of opinion may be that I am using one of the few optics with an auto-adjust that works well. Apparently other auto-adjust systems have not worked as well. It appears that the RMR-HD may be even better, but the RMRCC may have a slow adjustment. If so, I hope Trijicon can get the bugs worked out of the RMRCC.

One question: I understand that I should be focusing on the target and then see the dot come up over the target, but how do you avoid looking through the window when that happens?

I tried the RM07 in a darkened basement this evening. Even with the auto adjust, using the dot with barely enough light to properly identify a target becomes an exercise similar to an occluded window. The only way I can know what the dot covers is by superimposing the images from each eye. Should something similar be happening with more target focus, or is there something else I missed?

As a diagnostic tool, you might try some tape over the front of your optic display, which will force you to be target focused to see the dot.

[fatdog]

try some tape over the front of your optic display, which will force you to be target focused to see the dot.

Until I did that a few years ago I did not even truly understand what target focused meant in this context, making me forget about what was inside the tube which is not intuitive.

[WobblyPossum]

One question: I understand that I should be focusing on the target and then see the dot come up over the target, but how do you avoid looking through the window when that happens?

You can’t avoid looking through the window, that’s the only way to see your dot. The key is looking THROUGH the window and not AT the window. You have to treat it like every other window in your life. When you drive, you look through the windshield in order to see things on the other side of it such as cars and pedestrians (target focus). For the purposes of seeing the things on the other side of the window, it might as well not even be there with how little of your visual focus is on the glass itself. You see through it as if it wasn’t even there. You don’t look at the windshield (dot focus) when trying to perceive the world on the other side of the glass.

The best way to train target focus that I’ve seen has been the occluded optic method already mentioned where you tape the target side of the lens, forcing you to focus on the target as that’s the only way to see it. Make sure you use painters tape or masking tape. Other tapes such as electrical or duct tape might leave a residue of adhesive on the lens that will be annoying to clean off. Give it a shot in dry practice. If you can’t see your target with the dot superimposed over it, that’s an immediate clue that you aren’t focusing your vision on the target.

[HCM]

You can’t avoid looking through the window, that’s the only way to see your dot. The key is looking THROUGH the window and not AT the window. You have to treat it like every other window in your life. When you drive, you look through the windshield in order to see things on the other side of it such as cars and pedestrians (target focus). For the purposes of seeing the things on the other side of the window, it might as well not even be there with how little of your visual focus is on the glass itself. You see through it as if it wasn’t even there. You don’t look at the windshield (dot focus) when trying to perceive the world on the other side of the glass.

The best way to train target focus that I’ve seen has been the occluded optic method already mentioned where you tape the target side of the lens, forcing you to focus on the target as that’s the only way to see it. Make sure you use painters tape or masking tape. Other tapes such as electrical or duct tape might leave a residue of adhesive on the lens that will be annoying to clean off. Give it a shot in dry practice. If you can’t see your target with the dot superimposed over it, that’s an immediate clue that you aren’t focusing your vision on the target.

[TCB]

I wanted/needed another P-2 and had been putting it off…when the FDE became readily available it pushed me over the edge.