COVID-19 vaccines: medical concerns and recommendations

[Hot Sauce]

True but gun safety doesn't have potential side effects. Nothing will ever happen if I never touch the trigger....ever! That's a fact

Ever heard of the P320?

On the other hand the vaccine is an unknown foreign chemical injected into the body. Everyone is screaming it's safe but is it? Serious question! What side effects 2,3,4,5+ years from now, if any?

COVID19 virus is a known entity that's harmful. There's already a host of long haul side effects for a significant amount of people. Have vaccines given anyone COPD and lung damage?

[0ddl0t]

I imagine dose size and number will be tweaked in the years to come to help maximize the benefits and minimize side effects. Lowering side effects is why Pfizer's standard dose is 30ug vs Moderna's 100 ug. Pfizer is currently testing 10ug doses in children 5-11 and 3ug doses in children under 5.

A 300% dosage difference between ages 11 & 12 and 333% difference between 4 & 5 makes me wonder if a formula might be closer to optimal - something like X micrograms per pound of bodyweight. Or if 3 smaller doses spread out might be better than 2 standard doses (though epidemiologically it might be better for the population to make it more simple to ensure program compliance, even if it is suboptimal for the health of a diligent/compliant individual).

[YVK]

Here's some info from my SME source on this:

And, Covid itself increases myocarditis risk by 16x

Info from my SME source is that there is a ton of issues with that data set. To the point that it is useless to answer many questions about myocarditis, and particularly that of risk / benefit of vaccination in regards to myocarditis in susceptible population.

My SME is a dumbass who spends way too much time on gun forums, so I dunno if I'd listen to him.


Somebody keeps asking about long term safety concerns. During my years of practice, which is still ongoing, I lived through vioxx and baycol removal from the market, black boxing of a max dose of zocor, and never ending changes in regards to something as simple as aspirin. I am sure there's more, I am forgetful. I am not aware of any cases of remotely occurring serious effects from a therapeutic that's injected twice a year. Anyone knows anything like that?

[pangloss]

I'm behind in this thread again. To the best of my knowledge, most vaccine injury claims result from events that happen pretty close to vaccination. I don't know how you could have a bad side effect from a vaccine years after vaccination. Guillain Barre syndrome is a rare but known adverse event following influenza vaccination, and most people who develop GBS present with symptoms within three weeks following vaccination. (To be clear the number of people who experience GBS after influenza vaccination is astoundingly small.)

After vaccination, your body mounts an immune response to the vaccine. Within several days, most of the antigen from the SARS-CoV-2 vaccine is gone. There's just no mechanism through which a vaccine can cause problems years after the vaccine is gone from the body. Any long lasting problems caused by the vaccine would have to be immune-mediated. We're far enough out and enough vaccines have been given now that we know those events simply don't occur at a statistically significant rate.

Vaccines are very very different from small molecule drugs that you take daily.

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[0ddl0t]

I think it is reasonable to be skeptical of the latest and greatest medical advances. 32% of new drugs wind up with additional warnings or are outright pulled from the market within 10 years of FDA approval (median time: 4 years). Medical devices are also known to have long term issues arise after approval. These happen to disparate devices like pacemakers, hips, hernia meshes, and even surgical scopes.

But with the vaccine we are talking about no more than 100 micrograms (0.000003527396 ounces) given a couple times a year. For perspective, the LD50 of arsenic is something like 1.5 million micrograms. So barring some major manufacturing fuck-up (which the vaccine maker would be liable for), it seems exceedingly unlikely to me that there would be a delayed reaction to some substance in the vaccine.

So that leaves immune reactions, most of which happen on the short-term as pangloss covered. I mean if I use my wildest imagination I can suppose a scenario in which some otherwise benign substance/organism has a structure with some feature similar to the covid19 spike protein. Supposing you were exposed to a lot of this substance, you might have a severe allergic reaction.

But then again, the vaccine's potency declines relatively rapidly so you'd probably need to be exposed to this as-yet-unknown stuff within 6 months of your last vaccination. This makes it much less likely to be something naturally occurring and more likely something like a biological weapon. But why bother developing this particular bio weapon when there are plenty of existing ones that could accomplish the same results?

So I guess I see it as the difference between possible and plausible. But I'm still cognizant of Mark Twain's warning:

It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.

[4RNR]

I'm behind in this thread again. To the best of my knowledge, most vaccine injury claims result from events that happen pretty close to vaccination. I don't know how you could have a bad side effect from a vaccine years after vaccination. Guillain Barre syndrome is a rare but known adverse event following influenza vaccination, and most people who develop GBS present with symptoms within three weeks following vaccination. (To be clear the number of people who experience GBS after influenza vaccination is astoundingly small.)

After vaccination, your body mounts an immune response to the vaccine. Within several days, most of the antigen from the SARS-CoV-2 vaccine is gone. There's just no mechanism through which a vaccine can cause problems years after the vaccine is gone from the body. Any long lasting problems caused by the vaccine would have to be immune-mediated. We're far enough out and enough vaccines have been given now that we know those events simply don't occur at a statistically significant rate.

Vaccines are very very different from small molecule drugs that you take daily.

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These aren't the typical dead virus vaccines and it seems to be every 6 months now not just one and done. Also, the CDC decided to change the definition of "vaccine".

This coming Sunday will be 1 month since vaccine and headaches persist. There's been the odd headache free day here and there but at least once a day i get a headache. Sometimes it goes away but sometimes it doesn't. When it doesn't I'm forced to take 4 Advils. Two then another two later because the first set didn't work, because I waited too long. So now I'm basically popping at least 1 dose of Advil daily which I hear is an excellent workout for my kidneys.

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[pangloss]

These aren't the typical dead virus vaccines and it seems to be every 6 months now not just one and done. Also, the CDC decided to change the definition of "vaccine".

This coming Sunday will be 1 month since vaccine and headaches persist. There's been the odd headache free day here and there but at least once a day i get a headache. Sometimes it goes away but sometimes it doesn't. When it doesn't I'm forced to take 4 Advils. Two then another two later because the first set didn't work, because I waited too long. So now I'm basically popping at least 1 dose of Advil daily which I hear is an excellent workout for my kidneys.

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I'm sorry you're having these headaches. I don't think I've ever said that people are never injured vaccines. Injuries are rare, but if you're the person who has an injury, statistics aren't much comfort. The point I was making above was that I don't know of any biological mechanisms that would support a long delay in onset of symptoms from injury following vaccination. You're headaches started relatively soon after vaccination so your experience falls outside the scenario I was discussing. What ever is causing the headaches, I hope they stop soon.

[Snapshot]

I'm sorry you're having these headaches. I don't think I've ever said that people are never injured vaccines. Injuries are rare, but if you're the person who has an injury, statistics aren't much comfort. The point I was making above was that I don't know of any biological mechanisms that would support a long delay in onset of symptoms from injury following vaccination. You're headaches started relatively soon after vaccination so your experience falls outside the scenario I was discussing. What ever is causing the headaches, I hope they stop soon.

This is a key point that is often overlooked in the broad desire to return to "normal" by encouraging / coercing everybody to get vaccinated.

Notwithstanding a lot of science that indicates _overall_ better outcomes from the vaccination vs. injuries & side effects, a few anecdotal reports of injury (even if false / exaggerated) can go a long way to discourage people who are not inclined to get vaccinated in the first place. For some people the increasing social pressure and demonization just increases their desire to resist, and of course it is very easy to find fellow travelers who further reinforce the resistance.

For me the vaccination (when they finally got around to it here) was the better choice, and thankfully did not result in any injury at least not yet.

But I can also understand the viewpoint of those who would rather not get vaccinated, and who fear, resent and distrust those who are squeezing them to do so.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

There's just no mechanism through which a vaccine can cause problems years after the vaccine is gone from the body. Any long lasting problems caused by the vaccine would have to be immune-mediated. We're far enough out and enough vaccines have been given now that we know those events simply don't occur at a statistically significant rate.

Do you think it's reasonable to conclude that the rapid decrease in protection from the virus is itself an indication that the vaccines can't be generating long-term effects in the body?

I.e. the fears that some people expressed that there would be some kind of failure to stop the production of spike proteins after immunization can't be correct, because we can barely keep you producing spike proteins for long enough to have a sustained immunity?

Or is that such a gross oversimplification of what's happening that even though there isn't a mechanism for it to cause problems down the road, the short duration of protection is not really an indication of that?

[4RNR]

. For some people the increasing social pressure and demonization just increases their desire to resist, and of course it is very easy to find fellow travelers who further reinforce the resistance.
.

I just don't like being treated like a child.

I made the mistake of taking the first shot based on bad info I had at the moment. It won't happen again

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