The tide is starting to turn. I don’t think anyone (well, there’s always That Guy) around here supports mandatory COVID vaccines, masking and lockdowns anymore. I can’t tell how many of the folks who originally supported those mandates during A & D waves still think that was the right choice in retrospect.Originally Posted by Sanch
David S.
If you made the wrong choice and got hospitalized or spread it to a loved one (many people were told it prevented transmission) who died would you want people rubbing your nose in it?
While I think it's a useful discussion to have, I'm not as worried about the vax history (hopefully the truth gets sorted and becomes widely known) as I am about understanding what, if any, lasting immunity is conveyed by the vax and by having had Omicron for a week last summer.
Does my immune system have enough "memory" to recognize my next exposure to COVID and react immediately?
Vs, when the pandemic first started, the virus had up to a 2 week head start on immune response because it was "novel".
Remembering back to hallways full of people on gurneys and the stacked bodies in morgues in Italy and the UK.... I'd very likely get vaxxed again in the same circumstances. But, it would be handy to know what lasting memory exists before considering additional vaccinations.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." - Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776
Well judging by the list of employees that are shown as being out on long term medical leave, I’d say sooner or later some questions are gonna get asked.
This was never about the flu.
Working diligently to enlarge my group size.
A lot of those stacked bodies in Italy were from ventilators. When some doctors started pointing that out and were quickly shut up my alarm bells started ringing. At the same time we had governors putting sick people in nursing homes. And in some cases putting sick young inmates into nursing homes.
Then in spring/summer when we were all sitting home I remember reading an article that talked about the deaths of 30 some young people in a Florida hospital. What they all had in common was that despite being relatively young, most under 40, they were all already walking time bombs. One man in his early 20 already had cirrhosis of the liver. Majority were over 300 lbs with unmanaged diabetes and other related health issues.
You can do mass gatherings only if you played for a specific team but sit home and do as you're told if you were on the other team. Or if you were important.
Can eat in a restaurant but once you stand up mask has to go on? Can't vote in person because of covid but can stand in a 20 min line at Costco or Walmart? Wear a mask that never did anything more than sacrificing a goat or doing a rain dance would!
F'ing Mr. Microsoft controlling the conversation around the making and distribution of the vaccines!
Changing the definition of vaccines.
Between the beginning of this and the release of vaccines to the general public there were so many bright flashing red lights about this whole thing that there's no way in hell I'd get the vaccine.
And now we're beginning to find out that not only do the vaccines not work but they seem to maybe, possibly, there's some preliminary data that suggests the vaccines weaken the immune system after the 4th booster.
The way they're going about it now ..... from here on out I'd rather take my chances drinking from the New Delhi sewer water than put my trust in CDC/WHO ever again.
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Congressional Representative Nancy Mace describes how the second dose of a Covid vaccine caused asthma, tremors in her left hand, and occasional heart pain during a hearing discussing Twitter censorship.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...plications-fr/
Man, I have got a lot of feelings about this particular nugget of "best practice"
Mainly because I assisted with a study that pretty strongly suggested that mechanical ventilation had no effect on mortality one way or the other. It was against consensus and was never published...but I don't feel like it was "silenced" in the way the proponents of some of the less popular therapeutics claim they were silenced.
Simply put, my research director changed jobs, I didn't have the knowledge or ability or resources to publish something let alone defend it to a panel of PhDs, and as a basic ass BSN I just asked a question and did some brainless shit work. It fell to the wayside.
But I believed it. Boy did I believe in this study. It consisted of the data of every patient our hospital system cared for with COVID up until 11/2020...and our hospital system was the biggest in the state. Because it was pre-vaxx, every patient was unvaccinated. Huge sample size, and the research director really believed it was going somewhere.
I believed it mostly because I saw the consequences of failing to intubate soon enough and it made mechanistic sense. When the patient is in stage 4 ARDS and not intubated but rather on inhaled nitric oxide, a BiPap and is on 100% FiO2, intubation is a terrible mistake sure. The lungs are scarred and damaged and the minute they get tubed they pop and cause pneumothorax and it doesn't help them anyways because the lungs are too damaged from the hypoxia already.
But being intubated and trying to get ahead of the hypoxia could have merit because you prevent or slow the lung damage and buy the patients body some time to heal.
We had a few patients that bore this out...but non so badly as a woman that the doctors refused to intubate for so long because "intubation is associated with negative outcomes" so instead we proned her (which is almost NEVER done with someone not powerfully sedated) with a specialized pillow and kept her bed slightly angled so the BiPap mask didn't strain her neck.
It got so bad. We kept her in the prone position, on a BiPap and iNO for 2 WHOLE MONTHS.
60 days, day and night she was fully awake and alert. She was in her 40s or thereabouts and otherwise healthy.
If the mask came off for even a second her heart rate would drop. If she was not prone her heart rate would drop.
Ultimately she asked us to see her family once more and let her die because she knew it was hopeless. If she moved a single limb she would almost die from the effort.
She died within a minute of the mask being taken off after a tearful (in person) visit with her kids.
I'm not someone who ever felt like a "Frontline Hero(tm)" but boy did I feel like a "Frontline piece of shit" for what we put that woman through only to see it fail.
It is the reason that study was even done in the first place and the question it posed (does intubating COVID patients REALLY cause bad outcomes?) was because I told this story to our research director and she said "Jesus, what the fuck"
If the study had been published maybe we could have saved some more people, but the response to COVID was such a pendulum of "we did this before, but a study just came out and now we're never doing it again."
Again, I don't think we were silenced...but it was a data point that didn't jive with the current (at the time) meta of how to treat COVID
When there isn't a huge collection of data to look at and say "this is the likely best answer" you get a lot of people who think their idea is The Answer.
Idk this is just my ramblings. Maybe it really was a better idea not to intubate patients and some patients were just fucked from the first minute their brotheruncleinlaw coughed on them at a family dinner.
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I've heard several people talk about it back then. One was a traveling nurse. She became hot for a week. Talked about how very few people ever got of the vent alive. Maybe she's back but at the time there was a very fast de-platforming and deleting. Even Fauci's emails showed they were talking about how to censor everyone not following their storyline (masks, bats, the whole thing).
Another I remember was a guy on Joe Rogan's show telling his own experience. Young, healthy, early 40s, active lifestyle. Caught covid way in the beginning before lockdown. Got so bad he went to the hospital. Had very hard time breathing. His doctor told me that he can put him on a ventilator but in his experience the chances of a good outcome is very small. If you have Spotify I'm sure that episode is still up. The guy is or was a tv personality. Mix race Black/Asian guy. I think from Inside Edition or something like that.
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Let me begin by saying that you are, in fact, a front line hero. You were presented with circumstances you did not create but were expected to fix. You applied the best of your knwoledge and skill to those situations. You genuinely care and are genuinely upset that things did not always turn out well. That is exactly the type of person I want caring for me or my family if one of us is ever hospitalized. To the extent that things did not always go well, you did all that could be asked of anyone and your conscience should be clear.
With that said, your post really demonstrates one fo the big problems I have had with the whole approach to Covid. Covid was/is a new disease, and we are still learning about it. Different people have tried different things with different results. Despite the novelty and disparate results, people are claiming that a "consensus" exists. This supposed "consensus" often seems to have originated from "Trump said it so it cannot be right," from a non-medically trained politician prescribing what medically trained people are required to do, or from at least one "study" which was later removed from The Lancet when it was found to be false. Anyone claiming a "consensus" under such circumstances is full of horse manure.
If you and your team, in your experience, have found that a specific method of care works, then you should be free to apply it when you and your team believe it to be appropriate (recognizing the limits of FDA approval, etc.). If others have found different results, than all of you need to be free to discuss what you found and why you believe the way you do without being vilified belittled, canceled, etc. My understanding is that this is normally how medicine is practiced. Many of us on the outside looking in have had good reason to believe that this is not what happened among those deciding the "consensus."
To be fair most medically trained people were pretty confident HCQ was horseshit for Covid and only referenced that study as a sort of exasperated 'See? Horseshit. Leave us alone'.
That doesn't excuse them from spreading or defending horseshit but AFAIK HCQ landed just on the maybe side from magic healing crystals in the end so context is important.
I'm more interested in setting standards for the next pandemic than endless rehashing of this one. Turns out if you relentlessly demand answers from people that don't have one they'll eventually make one up. Who knew?
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