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Thread: Labor shortages in the skilled trades discussion

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    One good thing about all of this...

    The robots are coming.

    just like the checkers/self-checkout, once the human becomes more difficult/scarce/expensive, you WILL be replaced. That goes for "pencil pushers" like me too.

    There are so many machines for construction right now from layout to laying block, but they lack the funding because people are still cheap. Make them less skilled and more expensive and less available and suddenly folks will get real interested in alternative means.

    I'm a little sad that lumber prices seem to be headed down, even if not all the way down. I'm really interested in alternative building materials (I have some samples on my desk made from rice hulls, pretty neat concept) but without funding to get spun up to scale they are still expensive. Make "real wood" more expensive for long enough and people are going to get interested in alternatives.
    I was at Home Depot today, of course the item I was looking for (and shown "3 in stock" on their web site) was nowhere to be seen. Normally I just give up and move on, but I wanted this for some work I planned to do today, so I waited to ask somebody. "Mike" was duplicating some keys for a guy who seemed to be making two copies of everything on his key ring. What I noticed, and had not seen before, was that Mike was not doing the old-style trying to find the right blank, aligning the blank and the original in clamps, then guiding the original while the blank was cut. Instead he stuck the original in one slot of a much bigger machine, waited a second or two until a screen told him which blank number to select from a rack on top of the housing. He pulls a blank from the corresponding slot in the rack, scans the bar code, sticks the blank into another slot, and presses "Copy". Ten or fifteen seconds later the screen shows "Finished" and he pulls the copy out, sticks it in another slot which wipes off any debris, pulls it out and gives it a quick swipe with a brass brush.

    There was an old style duplicator beside the new one, he said "we don't really use that any more".

    So the robots are making keys, not a huge thing but a step on the road to replacing people. However, the robot key copier still needed Mike to stick the keys in the slots, so not totally replaced yet. A bit faster than typical hardware store key copiers and probably more consistent, perfect for places like Home Depot where many (most?) of the people working there don't have a lot of technical or trade experience or training.

    And, best of all: when Mike finished the ring of keys he actually looked around for the item I wanted, including going to check in the receiving area, and actually brought it out for me! Probably not going to find a robot to do that.

  2. #22
    Unemployment benefits are a big issue of course but a lot of this is reaping what you sow.

    Work ethics aren't created out of thin air. People hired immigrant labor because it was cheaper primarily, but also better and more reliable. Now they bemoan the lack of workers in fields where you have to start out by doing those types of jobs.

    The $600 a week unemployment boost was the biggest failure of Trump's presidency but it just hastened what was coming.

  3. #23
    Member MVS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cory View Post
    I work in the trades for a municipality. I'm pretty new to the trades.

    A big problem I see on this side is unrealistic expectations from my employer. They want an experienced 20 year plus journeyman electrician or carpenter for $16 and hour, and there is no room to promote later. Once your in there might be a small yearly pay bump but there is no where to go. The pay and benefits dont rival alot of the private sector jobs, and the amount of experience they want means those they do get age out every few years. Guys like me who are in apprentice type positions are in short supply too, but whats really needed is skilled labor. And you just can't get that for cheap.

    With FL's minimum wage growing over the next few years until it hits $15/hr something has to give. Every guy in our shop will quit and go be a walmart greeter before they bust there ass in the trades for the same money. It's going to sting for people who were $x an hour over minimum and are now far less over it. That's the loss of a lot of buying power.

    I sympathize with small business that are hurting for workers. But it wouldn't hurt some bigger employers to remember they need employees as much as employees need a job. The handouts need to stop, the unemployment needs to get reeled back in too. But alot of places need to value good workers. Ditch shitbags and actively retain/keep people who put out results.

    This stuff is all probably scatterbrained, and doesnt make sense. It's mostly related to my employer and some changes happening here.
    I wouldn't put my boots on for that money. We have assembly line workers in the RV industry near here making $30 hr and they can't find enough slackers to fill those spots

  4. #24
    Gucci gear, Walmart skill Darth_Uno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cory View Post
    - They want an experienced 20 year plus journeyman electrician or carpenter for $16 and hour,-

    With FL's minimum wage growing over the next few years until it hits $15/hr something has to give. Every guy in our shop will quit and go be a walmart greeter before they bust there ass in the trades for the same money. It's going to sting for people who were $x an hour over minimum and are now far less over it. -

    Ditch shitbags and actively retain/keep people who put out results.
    In the last three years our starting pay has slowly gone from $10 to $15/hr. That's just for someone who can show up on time and sober 4 out of 5 days a week.

    My top guys get $30 (plus health, vision and dental). What you're going to see is as entry-level (non-construction) jobs pay more, the scale for skilled workers will increase. Like you said, who wants to bust their ass out here for $15/hr when you can sell phones at the mall for the same pay.

  5. #25
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    One day I want to be a skilled tradesman.

    I spent today cutting the floor out of a dumpster, then beating it apart with a small sledge and a large cold chisel. It was probably 115 degrees inside that thing and I sweated like 2 gallons of water. Then I got stormed on before I could get my tools up. I can't figure out why I can't find anybody else who wants to do this.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by MVS View Post
    I wouldn't put my boots on for that money. We have assembly line workers in the RV industry near here making $30 hr and they can't find enough slackers to fill those spots
    I'm more or less an apprentice. The positions over me make about $16.50 an hour. Several of these people are flat our phenomenal at what they do, and did it in the private sector for 20 years before they came to work at the municipality. 10ish years ago jobs took a hit and they moved to the steady paycheck. I'm here for the schedule, and if I stay long enough the retirement - but that's apparently not what it once was. It's often hard for people to remember what the median household income is, and how many people are below it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth_Uno View Post
    In the last three years our starting pay has slowly gone from $10 to $15/hr. That's just for someone who can show up on time and sober 4 out of 5 days a week.

    My top guys get $30 (plus health, vision and dental). What you're going to see is as entry-level (non-construction) jobs pay more, the scale for skilled workers will increase. Like you said, who wants to bust their ass out here for $15/hr when you can sell phones at the mall for the same pay.
    That is a topic of frequent conversation in the parking lot. Our employer has to come to grips with the fact they won't retain people with pretty big pay increases. And that pretty much means taxes are going to jump... the whole thing is a lose/lose.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Cory View Post
    I'm more or less an apprentice. The positions over me make about $16.50 an hour.
    Dang. I don't mean this as an insult, but that's depressing. You're worth more than that. I would be looking for employment elsewhere no matter how good the retirement plan is.

  8. #28
    Site Supporter JodyH's Avatar
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    Try skilled oil/gas refinery/fractionation plant operations labor.
    Starting rate for relatively inexperienced (still need a few years of OJT in a related sector of O&G) is around $150k/yr. and goes way up from there, 14 days on 14 days off shift work has you actually working less than half the year.
    We're still very shorthanded at the facility I'm currently at.

    It's a good situation to be in for job security and compensation package negotiation though...
    "For a moment he felt good about this. A moment or two later he felt bad about feeling good about it. Then he felt good about feeling bad about feeling good about it and, satisfied, drove on into the night."
    -- Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy --

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Friday View Post
    Dang. I don't mean this as an insult, but that's depressing. You're worth more than that. I would be looking for employment elsewhere no matter how good the retirement plan is.
    No offense taken. I don't mean to throw a pity party, but I'm definitely on the low end of PF incomes/socioeconomics. The retirement plan is kinda "meh" too. If I give em 30 years, apparently they'll give me money to stop working? Or something like that.

    Seems like a win.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Welder View Post
    One day I want to be a skilled tradesman.

    I spent today cutting the floor out of a dumpster, then beating it apart with a small sledge and a large cold chisel. It was probably 115 degrees inside that thing and I sweated like 2 gallons of water. Then I got stormed on before I could get my tools up. I can't figure out why I can't find anybody else who wants to do this.
    Oh how I can relate. I have a giant offspring that does that dirty work for me now. Every time he bitches and moans, I just point out all the things I've built around the business. It gives me pleasure to see him add to those things now. He's got what it takes and he works extremely hard.

    I'd rather sweat doing concrete or welding on a big project than deal with insurance, taxes, and gov't regulation. Too bad I have too do both.

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